Round 3: Shinra Inc VS Esthar.

Please do ever so politely inform us of who you think will win?

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Shinra_Electric_Power_Company

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Esthar

Now this would be really interesting to see. High tech vs. shear numbers of people.

Shit. Really interesting match-up.

Both have numbers, though Esthar obviously has the advantage in terms of technology and air dominance.

Really, SOLDIER is Shin-Ra's only trump card in this. Whether that's enough, though, is really hard to say. We know Odine invented ways to neutralize magic, so that might disable materia depending on how that process works. But if Zack is any indication, the best SOLDIERs could take down an army anyway. And if you had an army of SOLDIERs, the ranks of Esthar's grunts could get messy really quickly, para-magic or no para-magic.

I think I will have to wait to cast my vote on this one.

I wish I could remember the arguments made when I participated in such a discussion about a decade ago =p. I recall Esthar being painted fairly weak though, which is why against Shinra, we'd lump 'em with Galbadia to give 'em a chance. Granted, there was likely a lot of bias involved.

Esthar's strong points seem to be the air dominance with the Ragnaroks. I don't think such a sturdy aircraft exists in the FFVII world. They also have the Lunatic Pandora, which according to FFwikia, besides para-magic, would have helped them against Galbadia in the Sorceress war, who had thus far staved off their attacks.

Shinra clearly have an advantage as far as ground forces are concerned. Their issues are the aforementioned flying shielded things Esthar has =p. The Lunatic Pandora could be taken out with the Sister Ray, I guess, but it is a moving target. I voted for Shinra, but perhaps too soon? =p

Eh, the more I think about it, I'm not convinced Shin-Ra has a huge ground advantage even. Esthari soldiers wear suits that enhance them physically, so they would be stronger than average grunts on the other side. Also, a huge portion of Esthar's infantry is made up of mechanized soldiers, so the numbers are only as limited as the resources to make soldiers (the FFVIII Ultimania mentions that the robots will eventually outnumber human soldiers).

Added to that, Dr. Odine is the world's leading authority on stuff like junctioning. If Esthar's soldiers were sent into battle with GFs junctioned, they would be on the same level as members of SeeD or SOLDIER.

The Sorceress War, by the way, doesn't accurately represent Esthar's military potential. To begin with, the Ultimania is clear that Esthar was unquestionably Galbadia's superior on this front.

Secondly, I think the FF Wiki is a bit inaccurate. The Sorceress War was not an attempt by Esthar to conquer the rest of the world outright, so Galbadia wasn't actually fending them off. The war was all about finding Ellone under the pretense of seeking a suitable girl to inherit Adel's powers. She seemed to specifically want Ellone, probably because of the time looped nature of FFVIII's story -- young Adel would have learned of Ellone and her power when she sent Ultimecia's consciousness into Adel in the past in order to allow her to cast Time Compression.

Had Adel been going for outright military domination, Galbadia would have been beaten.

I think the difficulty here is that we never get to see Esthar's power at its peak, as that presumably happens during the Sorceress War, seventeen years before the start of the game. Certainly, the game lore makes them out to be a formidable force, although Galbadia hold their own in the war, while Shinra and SOLDIER are able to take control of the whole planet. I'll have to wait for a while and listen to the arguments before I vote in this one.

I've decided to vote for Esthar. In addition to the superior air force, a sorceress (Adel), all around more capable soldiers and greater technology, it occurs to me that Esthar technically can count Squall and the entire playable cast (minus Seifer). Not all of SeeD, mind you, but nearly the whole playable cast, including Laguna, Edea, Kiros and Ward. This also gives them another sorceress (Rinoa).

Given that Dissidia has shown us Squall can contend with Sephiroth when the latter is even more powerful than he was at the time he worked for Shin-Ra -- and that Laguna is remarkably resilient himself -- SOLDIER's best would have their hands full. There would likely still be a lot of casualties on Esthar's side, but I'm convinced now that they would win in the end.

Not to mention that Esthar has a mobile particle cannon in the Ragnarok while the Sister Ray is fixed...

I'm giving this one to Shinra. Especially when you realize all the powerful people they had on their side at their best: they had Cloud(who, while not as strong as a Shinra grunt than he was after leaving Shinra, was still apparently powerful enough to take down Sephy), Zack(who defeated a fucking GODDESS), Sephiroth, Cid motherfucking Highwind, all the Turks we know of except Elena and Vincent, etc.