Is Sephiroth Really Overated As People Say He Is

Being Final Fantasy's poster boy villain he is the one fan boys and especially girls comes to mind when people think about the series. However, as the years have gone by people think he doesn't deserve his reputation. I think its because they haven't really experienced the game and realized how this silver haired mad man managed to have a big fan base.

totally

Kiss Land said:

totally

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What's the long version of your answer.

Kiss Land said:

totally

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This. The idea that people who don't like Sephiroth "haven't really experienced the game" is completely unfounded. Both Mog and I have completed FFVII and I'm certain we're far from the only ones.

Rory Williams said:

This. The idea that people who don't like Sephiroth "haven't really experienced the game" is completely unfounded. Both Mog and I have completed FFVII and I'm certain we're far from the only ones.

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What is your reasons for not liking Sephiroth? I actually want to know in detail.

I didn't say I don't like him; I said he's overrated. He's a rather boring villain with a bland personality. The fact that Square Enix has utterly ruined what personality he actually had in the original game with the Compilation doesn't help either. There are several villains in the series who have much more interesting personalities, chief among them Golbez, Kefka, and Kuja. ( ).

Rory Williams said:

I didn't say I don't like him; I said he's overrated. He's a rather boring villain with a bland personality. The fact that Square Enix has utterly ruined what personality he actually had in the original game with the Compilation doesn't help either. There are several villains in the series who have much more interesting personalities, chief among them Golbez, Kefka, and Kuja. (

Spoiler

Yes Golbez isn't really a villain, but we're supposed to think he is for most of FFIV, so he counts

).

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If I remember didn't they actually give a reason for his flanderization because of the fact that he tossed away everything in his past personality to keep his form in the Lifestream. So, now all he really is focused on his making Cloud miserable and finding new ways to destroy the world then become a planet hopper like Jenova.

I don't really care what the in-universe reason they gave for devaluing his character was. It doesn't make the writing less shitty. The post-Crisis stuff also doesn't affect Crisis Core, where the writing for his character also appears to have been pretty bad (admittedly I haven't played it).

Rory Williams said:

I don't really care what the in-universe reason they gave for devaluing his character was. It doesn't make the writing less shitty. The post-Crisis stuff also doesn't affect Crisis Core, where the writing for his character also appears to have been pretty bad (admittedly I haven't played it).

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Does he work well as a villain in your eyes? But on the other hand how does he fail in the personality department and what do you feel should have been made to make him more interesting.

He's a reasonably impressive villain considering that he's mostly offscreen for most of the game. But that's also what makes his personality so limited. We barely even see him. It's impressive that they were able to make him intimidating despite that, but there are other villains in the series who are onscreen for much longer and therefore Square were able to give them much more memorable personalities.

What is his appeal anyways? I've played FF7 more than once and have never really seen why he has so many fans.

He was actually likeable in CC, but as soon as he became a villain, he started giving hammy, cheesy speeches and lost what little had been going for him in the first place (aka an actual personality). But setting CC aside and just focusing on his villainous personality as portrayed in FF7 and AC, I still have a difficult time giving a shit about a villain who apparently just exists to dick around with Cloud and to instinctively jump worlds. He's just not a compelling character to me, nor is he likeable.

Rory Williams said:

He's a reasonably impressive villain considering that he's mostly offscreen for most of the game. But that's also what makes his personality so limited. We barely even see him. It's impressive that they were able to make him intimidating despite that, but there are other villains in the series who are onscreen for much longer and therefore Square were able to give them much more memorable personalities.

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Yeah, Square treats Sephiroth more like a force of doom rather than a person and that is the way he was supposed to be written. I actually think they should have expanded more of Sephiroth as a character personality wise myself. I know Cloud is the main character but things that are revealed about Sephiroth are only mentioned but never fully looked into. I mean we don't even have any outside sources talking about his childhood and his time in the Wutai War which would have defiantly done good to give him more characterization.

Sephiroth has the potential to be a very interesting and engaging character with a very detailed backstory but its never really looked into because all it seems to be really important to Square is making him be a one note villain who causes problems for Cloud. Like the previous post said he was more likable and interesting when he actually was good but when he turned evil it seems that all those things that really hooked you into him vanish. It almost makes people wish he actually staid good.

Rory Williams said:

I don't really care what the in-universe reason they gave for devaluing his character was. It doesn't make the writing less shitty. The post-Crisis stuff also doesn't affect Crisis Core, where the writing for his character also appears to have been pretty bad (admittedly I haven't played it).

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He's actually alright in Crisis Core. It's when he becomes a villain that he gets pretty dumb.

Kiss Land said:

He's actually alright in Crisis Core. It's when he becomes a villain that he gets pretty dumb.

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I actually thought that when he actually was human that Sephiroth was actually great to know as a character. He does have to be intimidating all the time or spout some clichéd evil stuff but actually be a relatable person one can actually feel for.

Sephiroth was funny and enjoyable when he was sane. Then he went off the deep end and didn't even have the decency to make dry, sarcastic jokes anymore.

Compare him with someone like Seifer from FF8. Even after he turns villainous, he's still a complete jerkwad goof. He goes from "I'm gonna tell ya 'bout my romantic dream!" to "The knight has retired. I guess you could call me a young revolutionary!" right before he jump-starts the Apocalypse. It's nice to see some consistency instead of the 180-degree turnaround that Sephiroth experiences. I know I personally would've appreciated a dry, sarcastic, villainous Sephiroth rather than this ridiculous "Mother!" business.

Rory Williams said:

I didn't say I don't like him; I said he's overrated. He's a rather boring villain with a bland personality. The fact that Square Enix has utterly ruined what personality he actually had in the original game with the Compilation doesn't help either. There are several villains in the series who have much more interesting personalities, chief among them Golbez, Kefka, and Kuja. (

Spoiler

Yes Golbez isn't really a villain, but we're supposed to think he is for most of FFIV, so he counts

).

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Yay, I'm relevant

I liked him better in the original VII but he got what I'd like to call the "Dissidia Treatment" AKA butchering the hell outta characters.

The obsession he has with cloud in his multiple cameos is just eww.

dief said:

Sephiroth was funny and enjoyable when he was sane. Then he went off the deep end and didn't even have the decency to make dry, sarcastic jokes anymore.

Compare him with someone like Seifer from FF8. Even after he turns villainous, he's still a complete jerkwad goof. He goes from "I'm gonna tell ya 'bout my romantic dream!" to "The knight has retired. I guess you could call me a young revolutionary!" right before he jump-starts the Apocalypse. It's nice to see some consistency instead of the 180-degree turnaround that Sephiroth experiences. I know I personally would've appreciated a dry, sarcastic, villainous Sephiroth rather than this ridiculous "Mother!" business.

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I think its in CC where people actually fell in love with him for real. A pretty face might give you a fan club but personality can really win the heart of someone who is not taken by just beauty. When people have crushes they only look on the outward details of a person and don't really know personally about how they feel or think. But when someone is in love with a person they actually truly understand them and know their faults, strengths, likes, dislikes, and other things that are important about that person.

I think it would have been a different game if they actually kept his personality after he turned evil. I think the Lifestream thing was just used as an excuse to justify his now bland personality.

Honestly, I think when I first played the game when I was 14/15 I thought he was pretty cool as a bad guy, but then as I read more books, watched more films and played more games I realised he was pretty dull. I mean his character design is cool with the hair and the sword and everything but his motivations don't really add up. He just seems to say stuff in order to trigger setpieces.

Like he want's to become a God.....why? What would be the point in sucking all the energy out of the planet? Just so he could sit alone in space for all eternity? It would have made more sense if he'd wanted revenge on Shinra for his treatment or the treatment of Lucrecia (or hell even Jenova) And his fixation on Cloud seems so petty too, whatever the reason SE have given. He just seems to be a typical shallow anime villian, but saturday morning kids TV anime.

The best thing he's got going for him is his looks, and the characterisation that good fanfic writers have given him, cos honestly SE don't seem to have given it much thought.

He wouldn't be sitting alone in space forever. He would have started his own world with himself at the center of its Lifestream.

And I've never understood the claims that the Compilation (or Kingdom Hearts) butchered his character. With exception to appearances from before he knew Cloud, he has been consistently written since 1997 -- i.e., he has always been obsessed with Cloud, including in the original game. He spends the entirety of Disc 1 and a large enough part of Disc 2 just fucking with him and breaking him down because he hates him for humiliating him in Nibelheim. That's it. That's all Sephiroth ever boiled down to in the original game, other than the Meteor thing, which he never needed Cloud for to begin with and hardly gave his attention to.

If Sephiroth had been focused on taking over the world instead of obsessing over Cloud, the game would have ended when everyone was locked up in Shin-Ra's holding cells. Seph would have killed them all in their sleep right then instead of letting them out to chase him.

Sometimes I think people remember Sephiroth -- and the original game as a whole, for that matter -- through whatever impressions they took of it during their first playthrough, because while the Compilation has fucked a goodly number of things over, it's so often not the charges leveled against it.

Martha Jones said:

He wouldn't be sitting alone in space forever. He would have started his own world with himself at the center of its Lifestream.

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Well either way, that sounds like it would get pretty boring after the first 200 years or so. Like playing Populus

Octo said:

Well either way, that sounds like it would get pretty boring after the first 200 years or so. Like playing Populus

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Its kind of sad that when good fanfiction writers can make a company's own character better written that what is presented in canon. It almost makes me wish that instead of being the villain that Sephiroth was a good guy character. I think his personality, background, and interactions with other characters would have been explored more. I know from the beginning Sephiroth was supposed to be the bad guy but I don't think it ever donned on the team working on the game that maybe he would be a more relatable character if he was a protagonist.

Tres makes a good point. The OG wouldn't have gone anywhere if Sephiroth wasn't obsessed with Cloud. I mean, all Sephiroth would have to do is "wake up" Jenova, send it over to Temple of the Ancients, get the Black Materia, and bring it back to the Northern Crater, and then its GG. Instead he messes around with Cloud long enough for Cloud and Co. to actually have a good reason to destroy him. You'd think that after he'd absorbed the Lifestream he'd know better. So, yeah... I actually feel that KH and the rest of the Compilation is pretty consistent with his character.

The only interesting thing for me about Sephiroth is how after he finds out that he was lied to about Jenova being his mom, he still wants to destroy everything. It's not like he actually admits to himself that he was wrong in his initial understanding of what relation he has to Jenova. For whatever reason, he has to lie to himself about his own origins, when that's what he was trying to find out about in the first place. My thought is that his obsession with Cloud stems from that fact that if Cloud, a no-name person of normal origins and no genetic manipulation what-so-ever, can beat him, then Sephiroth's initial thought (from when he was ane!) that the reason why he felt "special" was because of his non-human origins is wrong. And Sephrioth is prideful enough that he has to be right, so he keeps trying to defeat Cloud to prove Cloud wrong, and keeps failing.

Also, there isn't anything wrong with flat, uncomplicated villains, if they're done well. And while OG Sephrioth is on the flatter end of the character spectrum, he fulfills the role he was to play very well. Hell, Sauron in LOTR has less screen time...

Well, I don't think anyone is seriously arguing that Sephiroth didn't fulfill his designated role well in FF7, just that he's bland as hell. An actual personality wouldn't exclude him from being a Cloud-obsessed, world-hopping villain; in fact, I think his mindfuckery with Cloud may have worked even better had he actually had or pretended he had some humanity left in him.

I won't even pretend to understand what goes on with Sephiroth after the Lifestream incident. I get the Cloud obsession, sure, but like you said, it seems odd that after he's received all the knowledge in the Lifestream, he would continue with his plans to destroy the world and all. I mean, it almost just reads like he knows what's going on, but decides it doesn't matter and that he has the right to go all evil anyways.

Yeah, that's how it reads. I like to think that he was deliberately written to come off that way rather than it was an oversight never having him address it in a conversation with anyone.

dief said:

Well, I don't think anyone is seriously arguing that Sephiroth didn't fulfill his designated role well in FF7, just that he's bland as hell. An actual personality wouldn't exclude him from being a Cloud-obsessed, world-hopping villain; in fact, I think his mindfuckery with Cloud may have worked even better had he actually had or pretended he had some humanity left in him.

I won't even pretend to understand what goes on with Sephiroth after the Lifestream incident. I get the Cloud obsession, sure, but like you said, it seems odd that after he's received all the knowledge in the Lifestream, he would continue with his plans to destroy the world and all. I mean, it almost just reads like he knows what's going on, but decides it doesn't matter and that he has the right to go all evil anyways.

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You know in the earlier drafts of the script the way he turned evil was the fact that he was exposed too much to mako that it turned him insane. His earlier self resembled Kelfka in a lot of ways. Also in the earlier drafts Jenova was a gene that everybody had and could be activated through mako exposure.