Hopes for Remake & Rebirth (gameplay/combat)

[Kain424]

So, I've been going through all of the Kingdom Hearts games to get ready to finally play Kingdom Hearts III. When I was going through 0.2 - A Fragmentary Passage, I came across this fountain that looked pretty familiar.



I mean, it's not just me right? I think they just lightly flipped that asset, with only the tiniest variations for that gameplay trailer.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Ehhh, I'm not seeing it. The only similarities are the most basic gist of what we're looking at: a fountain surrounded by street lamps within an in-ground recess, with a short series of steps leading out of/into the recess.

The assets themselves, though, are all completely different from what I can tell -- the lamps (and their placement in relation to the recess); the pedestals (and their placement in relation to the recess, the fountain basin, and the lamps); the fountains themselves (their tiers, style, and size); and even the number of stairs.

In point of truth, the more I look at the two, the less similar they seem.

 

[ChipNoir]

I think what leaps out to me more is how similar Versus's version of Insomnia and Midgar Sector 8 look.

 

[Gary Caelum]

I think that's just "this type of scene looks kinda cool, lets do something similar" rather than asset flipping.

That fountain in Midgar is in the original game and Crisis Core too.

 

[Kain424]

Still playing through the Kingdom Hearts games and came across this part of Kingdom Hearts III. It's basically a better version of the snowboarding bit from Final Fantasy VII. I could see them using the same exact mechanics for the remake.

 

[Gary Caelum]

With Tifa and Barrett hanging off the side of the snowboard.

 

[ChipNoir]

That IS my one thing I'm no longer 'too' concerned with for VII-R. I have been increasingly frustrated with Final Fantasy cutting out mini games in favor of the Hunt style side content. I am never satisfied if a game's idea of padding is just MORE of what you're already dealing with during the campaign.
On the otherhand while Kingdom Hearts III has a lot of mini games, they all feel slightly under-executed for lack of a better term; They just don't go far enough. The nadir of this being the cooking mini games and the Winnie The Pooh Bubble Bobble games. Those are straight up lazy and frustrating.

So I dunno. I have higher expectations for this than I would have had from XII to to XV now, but it's still relatively low looking at how KHIII handled things.

 

[Lulcielid]

Why wasting time and resource on (lots) of mini-games when that could be used on the core loop of the game rather than a tangent activity?

 

[ChipNoir]

Why wasting time and resource on (lots) of mini-games when that could be used on the core loop of the game rather than a tangent activity?

Because you need a breather from routine. If everything boils down to Story>Combat>Story>Combat you end up burnt out, especially on long haul 60+ hours games. The reason I haven't run screaming from Persona 5's projected 100 hour run time is because if I get story fatigued I can just bugger off from the main mission for an hour or two to just do something else. I don't feel like I'm just left with nothing but Point A to Point B as the only thing that really matters.

This is also why I have huge problems with XV because literally the only thing to do is either crunch story, or fill time trying to make the local wildlife go extinct. Fishing is nice, but it's about the only reprieve from that routine that I've encountered so far, and it burns me out so fast.

 

[Ite]

Because you need a breather from routine. If everything boils down to Story>Combat>Story>Combat you end up burnt out, especially on long haul 60+ hours games. The reason I haven't run screaming from Persona 5's projected 100 hour run time is because if I get story fatigued I can just bugger off from the main mission for an hour or two to just do something else. I don't feel like I'm just left with nothing but Point A to Point B as the only thing that really matters.

This is also why I have huge problems with XV because literally the only thing to do is either crunch story, or fill time trying to make the local wildlife go extinct. Fishing is nice, but it's about the only reprieve from that routine that I've encountered so far, and it burns me out so fast.

^ This. I’m 20 hours into Witcher 1 and super burnt out on the combat>dialogue tree cycle. If it weren’t for the potion crafting I would have thrown in the towel long ago.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Why wasting time and resource on (lots) of mini-games when that could be used on the core loop of the game rather than a tangent activity?

Because that's what the original FFVII did and we've every reason to expect the same from a remake.

 

[Kain424]

My own point is that the mechanics are already there. Hell, they could fairly easily port over G-Bike into the overall game and you've got a pretty solid minigame fully made right there. I actually hope that's exactly what they'll do. The mog minigame would need some major overhauling, and the sub game would probably need a complete, ground-up re-working, but it would seem there are already a couple existent versions of their minigames all ready to go.

 

[Gary Caelum]

That IS my one thing I'm no longer 'too' concerned with for VII-R. I have been increasingly frustrated with Final Fantasy cutting out mini games in favor of the Hunt style side content. I am never satisfied if a game's idea of padding is just MORE of what you're already dealing with during the campaign.

This has been a massive annoyance for me too. Both FFXII and FFXIII had nothing but hunts. FFXV had a few other things but they were so minor that they're pretty pointless. It's not since FFX have we had a mini-game that kinda spans the whole game, with Blitzball. Then Chocobo Hot'n'Cold in FFIX and Triple Triad in FFVIII.
Kinda sad that the Witcher 3 beat them at a concept they largely invented.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I mean, FFXV's fishing is pretty heavy and awesome. For a mini-game there's a lot of skill and strategy to it that extends through the whole game. Not to mention the huge variety of fish, rods, lures and spots to fish. So I don't think FFXV was lacking in terms of scope with that. I think if you compare it, it's a mini-game that is heavy as Triple Triad, or some of the other mini-games before.

Hunting for recipes and extending Ignis's cooking repertoire is also a kinda fun mini-game. It just also has a practical in-game purpose. But being able to complete all of his recipes is quite a feat. I think FFXV just incorporates these side games into the game proper. You have to do it in some way so it doesn't quite feel as optional or just for fun.

 

[Gary Caelum]

None of the FFXV mini-games has much impact on the rest of the game though. What's the most you can get through fishing? Some new recipes?

Compare that to Chocobo HotnCold, Triple Triad, or FF7's Chocobo Breeding. It's not even close. Those games all add a massive amount of new stuff to the main game.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Well isn't the point of a mini-game to have fun and just do something else? I mean, yeah you want rewards but I was more evaluating the mini-game on the merits of it as a mini-game that requires skill and dedication. Not just rewards.

But if you look at it in terms of rewards... Well, obtaining one of the best recipes in the game, the Scientia Style Sushi is a pretty great award. I mean, the better fish you find and capture, the better dishes Ignis can make you. Which makes fighting harder enemies, easier. It has a practical, and worthwhile purpose in the end.

No, Noctis doesn't like... Fish and bag a Leviathan or an Ultima Weapon but you get good recipes out of it.

 

[Gary Caelum]

I think it's a combination of the 2 things really.

If it's really fun, I don't mind if it only has minor rewards. If it's less fun, I want more rewards from it.

I'd probably play something like Triple Triad with just minor rewards. Or Gwent in Witcher 3, which did only have very minor rewards. But fishing didn't pass that bar for me. I'd put fishing on par with something like Chocobo Breeding in FF7. Which I only really did because there was a Gold Chocobo waiting at the end.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Fair enough, the fishing is a type of mini-game some would find not as stimulating or fun. I mean you're just fishing, it's not like it's something as active or exciting as say Chocobo Racing. But it is a chill, and thoughtful way to do something other than murdering monsters in FFXV

 

[Gary Caelum]

The one thing I did like about fishing was how they had all those secret fishing spots.

Although I dunno if that was tied to finding paticular rare fish because I didn't spend any time on it myself.

 

[ChipNoir]

The one thing I did like about fishing was how they had all those secret fishing spots.

Although I dunno if that was tied to finding paticular rare fish because I didn't spend any time on it myself.

Legend of Legaia has ruined me for all other fishing minigames. Nothing else compares.

 

[Gary Caelum]

Well that's what I thought for in-game card games when Triple Triad came along. But then Gwent came along, and matched it/possibly bettered it.

 

[ChipNoir]

Man, a more action packed and intuitive fishing game than legend of Legaia? That'd be cool. Especially since there were also some really good game breaking prizes too.

But then, Legend of Legaia kind just kicks most JRPGs ass in terms of minigames. Only thing it didn't have was a card game.

 

[Gary Caelum]

I never played it. Although I did just get an SD card big enough to run loads of old roms on my vita, so I'll download it.

 

[ChipNoir]

I never played it. Although I did just get an SD card big enough to run loads of old roms on my vita, so I'll download it.

Do it! It got extremely overshadowed by VIII at the time, but it's the superior game to me. Full of way more charm, and variety of gameplay.

 

[leadmyskeptic]

The reason I haven't run screaming from Persona 5's projected 100 hour run time is because if I get story fatigued I can just bugger off from the main mission for an hour or two

Wait, you mean you aren't "buggering off" the ENTIRE TIME you play the game?? That's how it always feels for me, at least (and a big reason why this is one of my favorite series' of all time)