Noticed a few things

[Aki]

Well started a new game of the original VII today.

Noticed a few things, obviously Crisis Core made Midgar seem bigger than it was in the original. But Aeirths house, behind it is what appears to be water falls...in Midgar? has this ever been explained



And Tseng, in the rest of the compliation he seems a pretty decent guy. last order he tries to put off Zack and Clouds capture as he does in Crisis Core. He also says he'll look out for Aerith for Zack. But when he has her on the chopper he gives her a nasty slap. And seems a bit arsey when he talks. Not the same Tseng we went on missions with as Zack.



And he would of recognised Cloud as he is seen looking over the case files in Last Order only a few weeks before these events. And in Crisis Core is fully aware of Zack and Clouds situation, aswel as the outcome. So you'd think he might be a bit more friendly towards Aerith, seen as he's propberly the only person who could tell the truth about Zack,


I know its inconsistant due to the compliation coming after, just thought id throw it in here somewhere.

 

[Makoeyes987]

That's not a waterfall. That's a sewage pipe. That's water coming out of a pipe.

Tseng is a bastard because he's tired of being rejected by Aerith and her being unwilling to, at least in his eyes, make the world a better place by finding the Promised Land. He's frustrated.

The Cloud recognition is probably the big thing though. Only way to explain that is, that maybe they did recognize him but only talked about it in public and didn't want to have people know they were going behind Shinra's back trying to "save them." As for Aerith regarding Zack, maybe he intended to tell her when they actually captured her and had the time to. But of course that never happened thanks to Sephiroth invading the Shinra Building and raising hell. Along with Cloud and the others.

 

[Celes Chere]

Something that bugs me is that Aerith isn't really portrayed as the slums girl that she is. She's got a nice house, it's the only place filled with light and tons of flowers, and then she dresses like she has plenty of money. (Especially in Crisis Core) Elmyra looks typical, so is she like, sacrificing the pay to buy Aerith clothing? They always say that the church is the only spot in Midgar where flowers bloom- hello, look at Aerith's house. <=/ There's not just that one kind of flower either, there are multiple kinds. And if she planted them, how do they grow, especially if that's sewage water.

And I feel bad for poor Tseng.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

And Tseng, in the rest of the compliation he seems a pretty decent guy. last order he tries to put off Zack and Clouds capture as he does in Crisis Core. He also says he'll look out for Aerith for Zack. But when he has her on the chopper he gives her a nasty slap. And seems a bit arsey when he talks. Not the same Tseng we went on missions with as Zack.

True. But he's actually fairly decent (for a Turk) in the rest of the game. After all, when he slaps Aerith he's just found out that she has joined forces with their arch-enemy, the same people who almost wiped out all life on the planet only a few months, or even weeks, earlier. Quite a slap in the face to him, I'd say. Tseng is supposed to have a bit of an anger management problem, I think, according to some background notes I read somewhere (good works cited, eh?).

The Cloud recognition thing can't be explained away so easily, though somewhere out there I'm sure there's a fanfictioneer willing to try. In fact, without these inconsistencies, we fanfic writers would have a whole lot less to work with.

 

[Gale]

Wait now, just how much does Tseng know about Cloud according to Crisis Core? It's been a while since I played. To my memory Tseng was in Modeoheim when Zack met Cloud, so he did see him there. But Cissnei was surprised when she realized that Shinra was targeting Zack. Would she have any more to report to Tseng beyond that Zack was travelling with a comatose former MP?

If that's the only interaction Tseng had with Cloud, it could be written off as Tseng simply not remembering Cloud. To be fair, Cloud was overlooked for many years by Shinra. Hell, he killed Sephiroth and even Hojo thought he was a failure as an experiment and not worth remembering. Unless I'm forgetting something (which is very possible) and Tseng has more info on Cloud than that, it doesn't seem like too much of a stretch that he forgot about him, and thus doesn't question his later claims of Ex-SOLDIER status.

 

[ForceStealer]

Something that bugs me is that Aerith isn't really portrayed as the slums girl that she is. She's got a nice house, it's the only place filled with light and tons of flowers, and then she dresses like she has plenty of money. (Especially in Crisis Core) Elmyra looks typical, so is she like, sacrificing the pay to buy Aerith clothing? They always say that the church is the only spot in Midgar where flowers bloom- hello, look at Aerith's house. <=/ There's not just that one kind of flower either, there are multiple kinds. And if she planted them, how do they grow, especially if that's sewage water.

I'll give you her outfit in CC, but in FF7 she isn't exactly dressed to the nines. The dress is kinda nice but she's got pretty dirty boots. Also, just because you live in the slums doesn't mean you're the homeless dude with the tattered clothes.

As for the flowers, I'm pretty sure she does say that she "even planted some by [her] house." Granted, "some" is a little misleading.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

If that's the only interaction Tseng had with Cloud, it could be written off as Tseng simply not remembering Cloud. To be fair, Cloud was overlooked for many years by Shinra. Hell, he killed Sephiroth and even Hojo thought he was a failure as an experiment and not worth remembering. Unless I'm forgetting something (which is very possible) and Tseng has more info on Cloud than that, it doesn't seem like too much of a stretch that he forgot about him, and thus doesn't question his later claims of Ex-SOLDIER status.

Tseng notices everything and forgets nothing.
But that aside, in Last Order, doesn't Tseng look at the picture of Cloud in his folder? I got the clear impression that he knew who Cloud was. 'Course I don't know to what extent Last Order is generally recognised as canon, since it differs from FFVII and Crisis Core in a number of respects. For example, doesn't Tifa in FFVII think that Cloud was not in Nibelheim during the incident? Didn't he always keep his helmet on around her? But in LO they have a touching scene in the reactor when he takes off his helmet and she realises that he's come to rescue her. I think.

 

[Loxetta]

From the CC ending I got the impression that the Turks trying to find Zack and Cloud was 'off-the-clock' work, so to speak. They weren't really supposed to be looking for them -- especially not to save them from being killed. Tseng didn't want Shinra find out about his extracurricular activities. Discretion, man. Discretion.

As far as slapping Aerith goes, who the hell knows? Maybe he was just having a crappy day.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

The Cloud recognition thing can't be explained away so easily, though somewhere out there I'm sure there's a fanfictioneer willing to try. In fact, without these inconsistencies, we fanfic writers would have a whole lot less to work with.

I think the beautiful irony here, as with the entire FF7 Comp, is that Cloud is, and always has been a nobody. And with Crisis Core with the debut of Zack, who is the polar opposite of forgettable, this is really amplified. Nobody remembers him, everyone overlooks him, and his own archenemy constantly underestimates him. He is a loser. However, this same loser nobody who was probably voted "Nibelhiem's Most Forgettable" is the one who ends up saving everyone on the goddamn planet.

It's the thematic.

Something that bugs me is that Aerith isn't really portrayed as the slums girl that she is. She's got a nice house, it's the only place filled with light and tons of flowers, and then she dresses like she has plenty of money. (Especially in Crisis Core) Elmyra looks typical, so is she like, sacrificing the pay to buy Aerith clothing? They always say that the church is the only spot in Midgar where flowers bloom- hello, look at Aerith's house. <=/ There's not just that one kind of flower either, there are multiple kinds. And if she planted them, how do they grow, especially if that's sewage water.

Two words: Ghetto Fab.

 

[Ryushikaze]

As to the slapping and the not remembering Cloud-
To fool your friends you must fool your enemies.
For all we know, Tseng had a plan to bust her out later that the party and Sephy spoiled. It would fit what else we learn about him in all the other installments.
Same with not IDing Cloud as the last survivor of the massacre who escaped a year ago- pretend he doesn't recognize the guy whose file he was going over so ShinRa treats him only as a terrorist instead of as an escaped expiriment.
Granted, that all goes to pot when Red joins, but pfeh.

 

[Madame Mayor]

Wait there was a Tseng discussion and no one invited me?!?

I always liked the idea that Tseng slaps her so she'll get back into the helicopter, cause she gets pretty close to hanging out of it. He obviously isn't that upset with her since next time they meet he's all "be careful". XP

And I think he just doesn't remember Cloud. There are probably enough SOLDIERs that he doesn't know them all, and why would one MP be that memorable? Plus, the question of "who is Cloud?" doesn't seem to be a concern to Shin-Ra or the Turks. Maybe he could have figured it out, but they had more important things to worry about.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I think the beautiful irony here, as with the entire FF7 Comp, is that Cloud is, and always has been a nobody. And with Crisis Core with the debut of Zack, who is the polar opposite of forgettable, this is really amplified. Nobody remembers him, everyone overlooks him, and his own archenemy constantly underestimates him. He is a loser. However, this same loser nobody who was probably voted "Nibelhiem's Most Forgettable" is the one who ends up saving everyone on the goddamn planet.

It's the thematic.

Bulls-eye.
Nevertheless, Tseng does know who he is. Whether he would recognise him after four years, most of those spent in a big vat of mako, and after assuming that he'd died with Zack, is a different question.

 

[Aki]

Another thing I noticed. When your in the Shinra HQ. People keep mistaking you for an employee. When your wearing a modified SOLDIER 1st uniform, and carrying a sword thats so big someone would remember it. Been as the SOLDIER HQ is in the Shinra building.

Someone would of remembered the buster sword be from either Zack or Angeal. And with your Mako eyes and uniform you wouldnt exactly look like the receptionist you get mistaken for when you get the key card.



Some small things that may have to be tweeked if they remade it.

 

[Splintered]

And Tseng, in the rest of the compliation he seems a pretty decent guy. last order he tries to put off Zack and Clouds capture as he does in Crisis Core. He also says he'll look out for Aerith for Zack. But when he has her on the chopper he gives her a nasty slap. And seems a bit arsey when he talks. Not the same Tseng we went on missions with as Zack.

Tseng seems like a bit of a bastard at first, but you do eventually get to feel for the ambiguity of his character, or at least the relationship with Aerith, in at least one scene. Her crying over Tseng shows that there was more to him we didn't know, and we get to understand why by at least Crisis Core. He kind of hides his compassion under his face valued cruelty.

 

[Loxetta]

When your in the Shinra HQ. People keep mistaking you for an employee.

I always thought that was hilarious. Yea, that blond nobody with a famous SOLDIER's sword, that hot chick in the mini-skirt and sports bra, and that angry-looking, huge black guy with a machine gun for a hand?

They're just the maintenance crew.

 

[Masamune]

Another thing I noticed. When your in the Shinra HQ. People keep mistaking you for an employee. When your wearing a modified SOLDIER 1st uniform, and carrying a sword thats so big someone would remember it. Been as the SOLDIER HQ is in the Shinra building.

Someone would of remembered the buster sword be from either Zack or Angeal. And with your Mako eyes and uniform you wouldnt exactly look like the receptionist you get mistaken for when you get the key card.



Some small things that may have to be tweeked if they remade it.

But that's what it made it AWESOME!

I guarantee the remake would sap 99% fun out of the original.

 

[minimosey]

Tseng seems like a bit of a bastard at first, but you do eventually get to feel for the ambiguity of his character, or at least the relationship with Aerith, in at least one scene. Her crying over Tseng shows that there was more to him we didn't know, and we get to understand why by at least Crisis Core. He kind of hides his compassion under his face valued cruelty.

Not to mention the flashback from Elmyra - showing that Tseng knew where Aerith was living since she was young. It's disappointed me that Tseng and Aerith haven't been given more interactions throughout the Compilation because the OGC established that even though their connections to Shinra caused conflict between them, she cared about him (the crying scene) and that he respected her (he tried to persuade her for years to come in peacefully, rather than going the efficient Turk route and, say, kidnapping her/holding Elmyra hostage to get her cooperation). Especially in Crisis Core, where both of them were fairly important characters. I can't remember them talking to each other at all.

 

[Aki]

The flashbacks of Tseng dont fit either, as he is now shown as having short hair in past. And he dosnt really seem much older than Zack in Crisis Core. Be he is blatantly a man in the flashbacks when talking to a child Aerith.

I don't really like Tsengs portrayal in the orignal now compared to the compilation. he just comes across as a bad guy, where as in the compilation its the whole "well look at him from his side of the fence" Its the same with Reno aswel, he's become more of a likable character now.



A feature that may be intresting (cant decide if i'd like it or not) would be like the Active Time Events from FFIX. Where we saw the interactions of other characters away from the main party.


Yeah I agree a remake would be strange. Although alot of the serious scenes and epic story would look IMMENSE in blueray quality. Alot of the cartoonish and 90's jap RPG elements would be lost.

 

[Aki]

Played to Junon today and noticed some more plot holes.

When you have to do the parade. The Shinra army guy goes "what are you doing still dressed like that, get changed" When Cloud is pretty much wearing a SOLDIER 1st uniform. Like a MP commander would dare speak that way to a 1st.



I keep playing and thinking how immense scenes could look in bluray standards

 

[Tetsujin]

The flashbacks of Tseng dont fit either, as he is now shown as having short hair in past.

He didn't have short hair, he just wore it as a ponytail. In that flashback in FFVII, he might have just forgotten his scrunchy.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I just realised that, in the scene at Modeoheim in CC, where it's so cold that Zack has to keep doing squats to stop himself freezing - when Angeal dies, it RAINS! [Hey, just like when Zack dies!] Symbolic rain, naturally. The plot holes and defiance of logic are part of the charm.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Played to Junon today and noticed some more plot holes.

When you have to do the parade. The Shinra army guy goes "what are you doing still dressed like that, get changed" When Cloud is pretty much wearing a SOLDIER 1st uniform. Like a MP commander would dare speak that way to a 1st.

Yeah, they would definitely have to change that in a remake.

 

[Aki]

This thread isnt a falme thread. Just loving finding these littke plot holes.

Tseng does have shorter hair, as he does in Last Order set only weeks before the start of VII. Although in a ponytail his hair is shorter.


But hey I love this game, and this is the first time I've played the game since Crisis Core and DoC