SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[imach0c0]

Let's be honest. Why make it complicated when you could make it simple? If she was confessing her love she would just say it. No need to beat around the bush. Especially when it's your last chance to do it.

Fully confessing her feelings would require Cloud to provide a response. And they chose not to. Why ? Because Cloud response would not be positive. And obviously they're not going to impose rejection on her when it's her goodbye scene.

Then how would you explain the dream date? Does it make sense to do "date" things platonically?

 

[SilverSisu]

Then how would you explain the dream date? Does it make sense to do "date" things platonically?

Aerith was trying to understand what she feels towards Cloud. The whole date scene has Zack's presence looming around every corner implying that no matter how much Aerith likes Cloud it is Zack she wants.

 

[LNK]

Then how would you explain the dream date? Does it make sense to do "date" things platonically?

Yes, I just did one with a friend last night. Date things are only romantic if specific feelings are involved.

As has been said, that date has Zack written all over it. For Aerith, she might've had feelings involved, but for Cloud, that's a no

 

[imach0c0]

Aerith was trying to understand what she feels towards Cloud. The whole date scene has Zack's presence looming around every corner implying that no matter how much Aerith likes Cloud it is Zack she wants.

So during the GS HA date, when she said Cloud is different and wanted to see the real Cloud, was she still not over Zack?

 

[imach0c0]

Yes, I just did one with a friend last night. Date things are only romantic if specific feelings are involved.

As has been said, that date has Zack written all over it. For Aerith, she might've had feelings involved, but for Cloud, that's a no

Cloud seems to be just going along with it but in Aerith's case, it seems she was trying to enjoy those dates beyond something platonic. Or perhaps live a fantasy? idk

 

[Yoru]

Then how would you explain the dream date? Does it make sense to do "date" things platonically?

Can be both.

It can be a platonic date because you can go shopping and take photos with your female friend. I would like to point out that not all pose choices for the photo are romantic.

It can be a romantic date because during the first part of it Aerith is trying to figure out what her feelings for Cloud are.

But like we see in the Church, she doesn't love him. She likes him.

 

[SilverSisu]

So during the GS HA date, when she said Cloud is different and wanted to see the real Cloud, was she still not over Zack?

No. Do these bits sound that she has gotten over Zack?

" I hate the sky, it carries away everyone I Iove.”

" With a new love, you’ll forget the old one.’ I’ve heard this story before, but… is that really so? Is it okay if my heart hurts?”

" This is a strange place. Flowers bloom all year long. The seasons never change–my feelings never change. I’m stuck.”

" Sometimes I see someone who has the same eye. Same as you, I mean. And I wonder, should I ask: do you know him? do you know where he is? But I never do,”

" That’s it. I give up! I can’t stop thinking of you. Ugh, I can’t stand this!”

- Aerith's farewell monologue at FF 30th anniversary exhibition.

 

[LNK]

Cloud seems to be just going along with it but in Aerith's case, it seems she was trying to enjoy those dates beyond something platonic. Or perhaps live a fantasy? idk

Yeah, prior to that she definitely had feelings towards Cloud that were romantic. Were they as much as her feelings towards Zack though? I don't think so. Not even close. That's why in the end she said at least she knew where she stood with Cloud now. It really was a happy goodbye for her.

Now that she has seemingly died, she'll finally get that reunion with Zack that was alluded to with Advent Children.

 

[imach0c0]

No. Do these bits sound that she has gotten over Zack?

" I hate the sky, it carries away everyone I Iove.”

" With a new love, you’ll forget the old one.’ I’ve heard this story before, but… is that really so? Is it okay if my heart hurts?”

" This is a strange place. Flowers bloom all year long. The seasons never change–my feelings never change. I’m stuck.”

" Sometimes I see someone who has the same eye. Same as you, I mean. And I wonder, should I ask: do you know him? do you know where he is? But I never do,”

" That’s it. I give up! I can’t stop thinking of you. Ugh, I can’t stand this!”

- Aerith's farewell monologue at FF 30th anniversary exhibition.

" That’s it. I give up! I can’t stop thinking of you. Ugh, I can’t stand this!”

Is that Cloud or Zack she is talking about? I have seen arguments made that it could be either depending on interpretation.

Also - I don't know if this adds any validity but there has been discourse around this monologue because the picture in the pamphlet was of CA not ZA. Therefore some have argued that the monologue is about A getting over Z and moving onto C.

 

[nars305]

I'm exaggerating a little on purpose, but it's as if Tifa in the middle of the date said "You know... when we met again in Midgar you reminded me of Emilio. So I was happy to find someone who reminded me of the village. But now that time has passed, I think you're more than enough for me."

It's just a love killer. And he's not even an ex, just a childhood friend. Compared to.... yeah no. I'm sorry but that's a no. This scene can't be romantic. Never.

Even if it’s an exaggeration it’s pretty spot on lmao. I mean if I am comparing intimate moments, I guess it’d be:

GS dates -
Zack convo vs Mutual feelings

Church, Gongaga -
Friend zone? Liking and then there’s liking…vs You were there for me, now I’m here for you and near kiss

Since you mentioned Aerith’s death but not really romantic since it’s tragic-

Aerith death, Tifa being wounded by Sephiroth. Can’t really make a competition of these.

Aerith sadly dies, beautiful scene.
Cloud finds out he kept his promise to Tifa.

Which is why it's odd that people think the GS date between CA was romantic

That’s why I will ALWAYS repeat myself that I do not look at isolated moments. I have to consider every thing together.

 

[SilverSisu]

" That’s it. I give up! I can’t stop thinking of you. Ugh, I can’t stand this!”

Is that Cloud or Zack she is talking about? I have seen arguments made that it could be either depending on interpretation.

Also - I don't know if this adds any validity but there has been discourse around this monologue because the picture in the pamphlet was of CA not ZA. Therefore some have argued that the monologue is about A getting over Z and moving onto C.

How in the world can anyone interpret this as Aerith being in love with Cloud?

I mean what are their rationales?

 

[imach0c0]

No. Do these bits sound that she has gotten over Zack?

" I hate the sky, it carries away everyone I Iove.”

" With a new love, you’ll forget the old one.’ I’ve heard this story before, but… is that really so? Is it okay if my heart hurts?”

" This is a strange place. Flowers bloom all year long. The seasons never change–my feelings never change. I’m stuck.”

" Sometimes I see someone who has the same eye. Same as you, I mean. And I wonder, should I ask: do you know him? do you know where he is? But I never do,”

" That’s it. I give up! I can’t stop thinking of you. Ugh, I can’t stand this!”

- Aerith's farewell monologue at FF 30th anniversary exhibition.

In the GS date, it seems that she wants to move on with Cloud since she says: "You're different and that's ok because I want to see you." And then proceeds to hold his arm.

Unless she is over Zack, why would she say that? (unless Aerith doesn't realize that she has NOT gotten over Zack)

 

[SilverSisu]

unless Aerith doesn't realize that has gotten over Zack)

That's exactly what is going on. Aerith says that she is over Zack but Aerith's feelings contradicts her words.

 

[Yoru]

In the GS date, it seems that she wants to move on with Cloud since she says: "You're different and that's ok because I want to see you."

Unless you're over someone, why would you say that? (unless Aerith doesn't realize that has gotten over Zack)

I think there is a difference between wanting and being able to.

And that's the point in the dream date. She tried to. But it wasn't enough. She can't forget about him.

 

[imach0c0]

Wow, all this discussion with ZA is really a star crossed lovers romance. With the amount of pain and turmoil Aerith is experiencing internally with her emotions and not being able to forget Zack, I feel like the ZA reunion needs to be really special and emotional in part 3. Not just a short scene where they meet each other abruptly and disappear. @Yoru @SilverSisu

 

[Ryushikaze]

Forgive me, I missed the reference and anti-ed your joke with my own. Servo's line clicked as soon as you said this

It happens, no worries.

Time flies and stands still at the same time.

I wanna get to the "step to the right." Specifically "right" as a synonym for "correct"

It definitely drives you insane.

Picolloku/Gokollo! Vegetunks/Trungeta! Bulchi/Chi-ma! Grab the fusion bands from DB Fusions and anything is possible.

I insist we call 18/ Bulma 8 Bul.

Cloud for 10th class! But yeah, I don't see them getting along super well, which is like as not to be entertaining.

That's why I suggested it, after all.

Survival situations call for a knife's edge balance of confidence and caution. Some folks fall off the edge, all the more likely when it's not life or death anymore.

A false positive is safer than a false negative, hence the tendency towards false positives.

To be clear I was specifically referencing Time Adventure from Adventure Time's series finale.

Ah, yes. Had not twigged to that initially.

That's how you make Best Friends with hide and seek buddies.

Hear their unending screams of joy.

Sonic CD was best for this. Wait too long? Sonic quits.

Which softlocked the game IIRC.

Now tell the rest of the internet.

HEY, REST OF THE INTERNET, LISTEN UP!

Does it involve some throat tension? Like you're making a loose fist with the musculature around your larynx?

In my case it feels more like I'm loosening it up so it can bounce off of itself more.

Happy birthday Barret! No wonder he kept the sailor suit, it's a self-birthday present.

Always gotta treat yourself on your special day.

Agreed. If Aerith hadn't died, Cloud would still be with Tifa, which would be enough to stop a lot of Cleriths from CAltists all by itself. Also shipping Cloud with Aerith doesn't require so much "what the christ?!" if Aerith isn't dead.

Yeah, this might be DQ5 levels of chill if Aerith lived to the end.

Of course that's true of debate in general, isn't it? Even the old "who would win if X fought Y?" debates.

To some extent yeah, it holds for all types.

Have we made the obvious ABC joke concerning Anastar, BlankBeat and Cali? I don't remember it but with hindsight it jumps out at me.

Plus they've Already Been Chewed up and spat out around here, so

I feel like in the last decade or more we must have at some point, but I can't remember when.

It is known. I'm surprised never to have heard "Cloud despises Aerith, which proves he loves Aerith!" It'd barely be an exaggeration honestly.

Well, we do have "Cloud says he thinks of Aerith as Nakama which proves he thinks of her as more than that because he's obviously lying" thanks to Rebirth now.

That's where I'd put him, yeah. There or maybe Junon. The other mercs are harder to place.

Heavy is from around Nibelheim. Sniper... Corel, Medic... Mideel ba dum tish, Demoman is still somehow from Scotland along with Cait Sith, Soldier is from the scrubland between Midgar and Kalm, Assassin is from [REDACTED] and may former Turk. Pyro is from Icicle Inn area. Gotota keep folks warm!

Well said. I'm still acclimating to shifts in the forum's culture, so for now you're more in the know on the when.

Yer doin' fine.

Around the internets, I have no idea. Here on TLS it was the primary notice for shit posting mean shit about Aerith.

Yeah I've done this too, and wasn't always as good at noting my own bullshit. Either way they rarely seemed to get the point.

Yeah I recall whole pages of that honestly.

I recall pointing out that while this is obviously not true, it easily could have been and still fit the narrative.

Hey, wanna buy a "flower?" First one's only 1 gil.

If only there was anything they could say that'd make a difference.

"I give up, you were right, Cloti is endgame" might make a difference for them in the long run.

Cloud, as he often does, needs a hug.

Seconded.

I tend to agree, stopping to handle things wasn't a viable option. There were no viable options, they just took the nonviable option that took longer to go to shit.

Best of a bad situation and all, yeah.

Making characters self aware us always fun. Think we can talk Sephiroth into coming to Badanon meetings? Might be good for him.

Sephiroth would be terrible at therapy.

They were. That was all Cloud keeping Zack in the vault.

Thought so.

Ahhhh kitties. Until I had kids, never had I loved something so inconvenient so much.

They can be a handle, when you have 2 it's a little less so than with 1, but then the trend reverses.

You'd think more of Nibelheim would be like that if it was environmental. Though now I wonder if Claudia had this in her too.

Just tanking dragon attacks on the town with nothing but a frying pan a pot lid and the pure intent not to let a single hair on Cloud or Tifa's head get the tiniest bit singed.

This is both hilarious and accurate.

That's be a fun sitcom for Chris to do. Donald Blake, MD. A pure comedy where he plays a Thor who's forgotten he's Thor and is trying to run a medical practice.

Also arriving in Edge to save her and Denzel.

Do you think Cloud practiced that boomerang sword throw? Or did he learn it from watching Yuffie, as he seems to have learned the sword from watching Zack and Sephiroth?

I think he thought of it right that second, went YOLO and pulled it right out of his ass because his wife and son were in danger dammit.

Why do you think she let people die for weeks/months when she could have just invoked a downpour and avoided a lot of misfortune? She could even have saved Cloud from sinking into depression by curing Denzel and Cloud himself.

Real question. Not a petty attack to get the last word. I sincerely wonder.

Plothole?

View attachment 16248

Because when she does this, Kadaj and his brothers are still around. And Sephiroth has not been summoned yet. So she doesn't need to purify them first to heal Geostigma

I suspect she had to gather power. Cloud was her first cure, but she was finally ready with a countermeasure.
Ascribe not to malice what can otherwise be explained via incompetence or misfortune.

View attachment 16252

I’m genuinely curious of how long interpretations like this have been used in the debate? I ask because I’ve yet to see something that isn’t something like this.

Like I completely understand interpretation…but am I wrong to see this as reaching?

It makes me wonder what even is the debate? That Cloud only loved Aerith? He met her and forgot about Tifa? He settled for Tifa after she dies?

This is amazingly reaching and special pleading to try and reframe the scene in its opposite way.

In her HA GS date, she's asking him "until the ride ends" ... I mean... It's not really something you ask to someone if you feel you're sharing the same feelings. It's borderline asking for pity.

I'm sorry I always agree and try to not dismiss CA moments in the game. But it's not a romantic moment at all...

For Aerith it's about romance and trying to move forward from Zack. For Cloud it's about consoling her about the loss of Zack. That's the disconnect. They're not on the same page.

I have always read that look as "you are so getting laid tonight" since my first viewing, for what it's worth.

Yeah, those are bedroom eyes. That exchange of looks is in the script and is what causes Cloud to smile.

What is romantic about the CA GS date because for Rebirth's Ultimania Cloud's profile page states the dates can be romantic (Cloud and Aerith screenshot or funny, Cloud with Yuffie), the devs also said some dates/ bonds were more romantic, some more family.

As I said just above, I think it's that Aerith is trying to talk Romance while Cloud is trying to comfort a grieving friend.

Is there anything in the compilation from Cloud's pov because it seems like he kind of goes where the wind blows.
And I might be in the minority but they should have carried over the cattiness (from og) between the two girls over Cloud to remake if there not going to address the elephant in the room.

I mean there's the lifestream sequence! But yeah 2000 gil to be a hero for one.

And in my opinion Aerith friendzoned Cloud.

Aerith: At least now, I know where you and I stand I mean. Thing is Cloud, I really like you.
Aerith: But then "like" can mean a lotta different things, can't it?
Aerith: 'Cause there's liking and then there's.... "liking"

i really don't see how this is anykind of declaration of love. If anything it's the opposite.

But of course this is only my interpretation.

She did, but it's hilarious because he has zero clue or care about being friendzoned.
"Cloud, I like you, but as a friend."
"Cool, me too."

 

[Ryushikaze]

Few Cleriths have said to me that the reason why Cloud keeps his distance is because he is nervous being around Aerith in such tight place and his heart is going doki doki.

They always bring up the Remake chapter info boxes that state that when Aerith catched Cloud who was trying to sneak away from her home and leaned towards him that caused Cloud's heart skip a beat and during the playground date the info box tells that even though their shoulders were barely touching his heart was throbbing.

They also love to bring up that Cloud was mesmerized seeing Aerith in her red dress and didn't feel anything when he saw Tifa.

What are your thoughts?

Didn't feel anything when he saw Tifa? I mean, there's the fact he desperately didn't want her to see him in drag, but seriously, where are they getting "didn't feel anything" from?

 

[imach0c0]

I think there is a difference between wanting and being able to.

And that's the point in the dream date. She tried to. But it wasn't enough. She can't forget about him.

The more I think about it, that GS date is very tragic, rather than romantic.

 

[LNK]

In the GS date, it seems that she wants to move on with Cloud since she says: "You're different and that's ok because I want to see you." And then proceeds to hold his arm.

Within the context of that scene, how can that be construed as romantic though?

 

[imach0c0]

Didn't feel anything when he saw Tifa? I mean, there's the fact he desperately didn't want her to see him in drag, but seriously, where are they getting "didn't feel anything" from?

I don't think that is a fair comparison because Aerith dress sequence was a whole cut scene where the player got to experience Cloud's reactions. Tifa did not.

 

[SilverSisu]

Didn't feel anything when he saw Tifa? I mean, there's the fact he desperately didn't want her to see him in drag, but seriously, where are they getting "didn't feel anything" from?

They said that Cloud acted casually when he saw Tifa and was ready to leave her behind.

They also say that Cloud was mesmerized when he saw Aerith wearing her red dress and started stuttering.

 

[imach0c0]

Within the context of that scene, how can that be construed as romantic though?

The discourse I have seen is because some interpret it romantic because Aerith has moved on from Zack and is finding new love in Cloud. And Cloud returning the romantic gesture by letting her hold his arm/Cloud holding her hand.

 

[Ryushikaze]

They said that Cloud acted casually when he saw Tifa and was ready to leave her behind.

Do they mean when she's in the chococart or in Corneo's dungeon because he's anything but casual either time. The first time he's worried until she tells him to chill, then he starts getting worried again and goes through all of the wall market bullshit to get close enough to help her, and in Corneo's basement he's dying of shame and wants not to be seen by her in the dress.

They also say that Cloud was mesmerized when he saw Aerith wearin her red dress and started stuttering.

He 'stutters' when she catches him looking because yeah, she looks great in it, it's skimpy and he's human and hetero. Like at no point does anyone here argue that Aerith isn't attractive. Just that Cloud is jonesing for Tifa basically always.

 

[LNK]

Not just a short scene where they meet each other abruptly and disappear

If Rebirth is any indication, I highly doubt that'll happen. The stuff with those two will likely be handled the same way as Rebirth, maybe even a little more.

 

[LNK]

The discourse I have seen is because some interpret it romantic because Aerith has moved on from Zack and is finding new love in Cloud. And Cloud returning the romantic gesture by letting her hold his arm/Cloud holding her hand.

But what makes them think Aerith has even moved on from Zack? How was the hand hold romantic?