Was the Compilation a mistake?

[Dashell]

*reports* >:[

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Not a mistake, just mishandled. Run it down.

AC - ACC isn't really a bad movie, as far as Video Game movies go. If we'd been given ACC before AC, I think opinions would be different.

BC - Mobil games suck. Give us a port on the DS or PSN and we'll talk. What I've seen isn't all that impressive.

CC - no comment, haven't played

DC - why the hell would they make a Shooter based on a RPG? And it was a crappy shooter at that.

I welcome any game that expands and builds on the many vast, rich worlds of Final Fantasy, even if the actual gameplay sucks the expanding of the universe of the game is always fun for me. Like TAY, hate the recycled plot, but I like that they show us the world of FF4 20 years later and let us know how the cast is doing (and show us that Rydia is still a fox in her 30s-40s).

So yeah, the Compilation, like all the FF sequels, odd as it may sound, is good on the basis they're going to expand the universe and the characters. They just didn't do a very good job of it here. The many many retcons back and forth don't help either.

 

[Ite]

That's a really fair comment. But I think the retcons are the big problem, as evidenced by how heated we get about them. Having a bad sequel is one thing. I quite liked the first 'Pirates of the Caribbean' movie and didn't like the rest, but that doesn't infringe upon my ability to talk with people about the first movie.

With FFVII, it's different. I feel separated from the fandom because the retro-continuity got to a majority of them first. Because of the sequels, my ability to enjoy the original work with the community has been destroyed.

 

[Lord Noctis]

The retcons wouldn't actually be so bad if they served a purpose, or bennifited the story in some way. But most of them just seem to be there for the sake of it. Having Zack land on the stairs instead of a pod after Sephiroth beat him was pointless. Or Cloud fighting Sephiroth in Jenova's chamber. Its just so pointless.

 

[Max Payne]

Because of the sequels, my ability to enjoy the original work with the community has been destroyed.

Lol. This kind of logic I find absurd.

 

[Dashell]

Because of the sequels, my ability to enjoy the original work with the community has been destroyed.

Going on what Dacon said, why is this exactly?

 

[Alex]

I feel separated from the fandom

I feel separated from the fandom too tbh, I can relate.

But I feel separated from them purely because a good portion of the fandom are so appallingly stupid that they feel the need to discuss a love triangle debate even when one corner of the triangle is dead and rotting at the bottom of a lake.

More on topic: I don't really bother with the Compilation. It's a strange and bizarre parallel universe that I don't really want to involve myself with, where all the characters have been reduced to their most basic character traits, and where previously deep and involving stories have been substituted out in favour of 'meaningless nomura dialogue' and 'looking cool'.

Knowing it exists doesn't spoil the original game for me though. But it really did try.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I feel separated from the fandom too tbh, I can relate.

But I feel separated from them purely because a good portion of the fandom are so appallingly stupid that they feel the need to discuss a love triangle debate even when one corner of the triangle is dead and rotting at the bottom of a lake.

More on topic: I don't really bother with the Compilation. It's a strange and bizarre parallel universe that I don't really want to involve myself with, where all the characters have been reduced to their most basic character traits, and where previously deep and involving stories have been substituted out in favour of 'meaningless nomura dialogue' and 'looking cool'.

Knowing it exists doesn't spoil the original game for me though. But it really did try.

Though I do not entirely share your feelings, I thought you expressed them very eloquently.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

My only gripe is that it isn't being called a retcon. I think it follows every criteria there is for it.

Like Noctis said, nobody's disputing the applicability of the term "retcon" -- but all it entails is either a) material inserted into already established past events or b) alterations to already established past events. You can best summarize that as retcons being either expansions or changes.

While the latter of the two is almost invariably bad, the former isn't. Bilbo's ring of invisibility from "The Hobbit" turning out to be the Necromancer/Sauron's One Ring of Power was an expansion retcon, but I've never heard anyone think that it was a bad one. In fact, consensus tends to be that it led to the better story.

Rufus's survival is also an expansion retcon. Nothing is changed -- he was still in his office, still engulfed in an explosion, and everyone still believed he was dead for a time. But he wasn't, and that's as far as it goes.

As for a general concensus on the compilation. I can't speak for the fanbase at large, but here it seems to boil down to 'The compilation adds some cool new locations and concepts to FFVII, but is ultimately wasted potential with the only truly good entry being ACC.'

It's like you're channeling the TLS zeitgeist.

Having a bad sequel is one thing. I quite liked the first 'Pirates of the Caribbean' movie and didn't like the rest, but that doesn't infringe upon my ability to talk with people about the first movie.

Speaking of retcons, don't you love how in the first movie the Black Pearl was "the last real pirate threat in the Caribbean," and then we get hundreds upon hundreds of pirates being hung at the beginning of the third movie, a prelude to the hundreds upon hundreds involved in battles later?

Now there's some sequels no one should have ever even considered as a concept. It's like they were moving backward in fucking time.

... 'meaningless nomura dialogue' ...

Good post, but I do have to ask why Nomura gets blamed for literally everything involving the Compilation. It wasn't even his idea, and he certainly never wrote the dialogue for any of it.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

In the spirit of reviving dead things - retconning Rufus' death so that it was, in fact, his survival was one of Square's better decisions. The whole dynamic of the FFVII world is a triangle between three more or less morally ambiguous protagonists representing various levels of evil and states of denial - Jenova/Sephiroth; Shinra; AVALANCHE. Rufus alive is so much more useful and interesting than Rufus dead, and the idea of a Shinra that has changed to be politically correct (Rufus has grown 'wiser' from his experiences, yeah possibly; 'nicer'? I don't think so.), yet is still ultimately no different, something that holds a lot of potential, I think.

 

[Geostigma]

Good post, but I do have to ask why Nomura gets blamed for literally everything involving the Compilation. It wasn't even his idea, and he certainly never wrote the dialogue for any of it.

Its because nomura is a douche who thinks hes the shit for having a hard on for gakt and belts.

 

[Alex]

Good post, but I do have to ask why Nomura gets blamed for literally everything involving the Compilation. It wasn't even his idea, and he certainly never wrote the dialogue for any of it.

Catch all phrase for dialogue that wouldn't sound too out of place in Kingdom Hearts rly.

 

[Lord Noctis]

It is funny that whenever people start complaining about the compilation Nomura's name inevitably comes up, when the only entry he actually directed is arguably the most competent entry in the compilation outside the original game.

We should blame the guy really responsible for this crap. Kitase. Didn't he originally want Jenova to help Sephiroth fight Zack in CC before Nomura beat him down with a stick?

 

[Geostigma]

It is funny that whenever people start complaining about the compilation Nomura's name inevitably comes up, when the only entry he actually directed is arguably the most competent entry in the compilation outside the original game.

We should blame the guy really responsible for this crap. Kitase. Didn't he originally want Jenova to help Sephiroth fight Zack in CC before Nomura beat him down with a zipper laced belt?

fixed that for you.

 

[Lord Noctis]

My point still stands.

 

[null]

Good post, but I do have to ask why Nomura gets blamed for literally everything involving the Compilation. It wasn't even his idea, and he certainly never wrote the dialogue for any of it.

Because he's the most visible - he did tons of interviews - and did a horrible job directing AC, the flagship of the expanded FF7 universe.

Also, disgruntled fans need a whipping boy. (They do in sports anyway.)

 

[Geostigma]

I cant answer it to be honest because unlike most of you once i saw AC i gtf out of the compilation.
I made the smart move, thats why im not the one bitching endlessly on these forums as to whether or not the compilation was a mistake

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Catch all phrase for dialogue that wouldn't sound too out of place in Kingdom Hearts rly.

Which he also didn't write the dialogue for. =P

The guy who did would be the same guy who wrote FFVII, FFVIII, FFX, FFX-2, OtWtaS, AC/C and CC. XD

We should blame the guy really responsible for this crap. Kitase. Didn't he originally want Jenova to help Sephiroth fight Zack in CC before Nomura beat him down with a stick?

Yes.

Because he's the most visible - he did tons of interviews - and did a horrible job directing AC, the flagship of the expanded FF7 universe.

AC's direction was painful, yeah, but ACC is actually competent. It's genuinely a decent movie.

 

[Ite]

I don't think the addition of twenty minutes onto a bad movie make it suddenly a good movie. I think ACC repaired a lot of the damage that had been done, but it certainly did not redeem the repetitive, retarded dialogue (no matter who wrote it). And it didn't give the rest of the actual player characters any more screen time, which was my first big gripe about it, before I realized that there'd been character rape on a massive scale, from Cloud reliving his character arc to the Turks basically changing their theme song to Yakety Sax.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I don't think the addition of twenty minutes onto a bad movie make it suddenly a good movie.

I feel the additions and changes took it from being a series of random clips on a disc to being a proper, sequential narrative with pacing, atmosphere (instead of constant, unwelcome audio, to which the length of scenes had been molded rather than the other way around), proper character exploration and resolution, and music that was re-recorded to fit the scenes.

And it didn't give the rest of the actual player characters any more screen time, which was my first big gripe about it, before I realized that there'd been character rape on a massive scale, from Cloud reliving his character arc to the Turks basically changing their theme song to Yakety Sax.

It's kind of hard to hold against the movie that it didn't give more time to the other members of AVALANCHE when its intention was focusing on Cloud and his immediate family. If it had given more attention to the others, it would have been more all over the place than people had previously accused it of being.

I do agree that the Turks were used too much for slapstick in the original AC, but Cloud's character arc was not at all a rehash of that in the original game. I'm not sure where you got that from.

 

[Ite]

In the game he starts off moody, arrogant, angry and oversensitive, because he doesn't have a proper past to ground himself with, and what little he remembers is full of abandonment and self-doubt. This gets worse as this cute girl he likes dies, and he realizes that his brain is a soup, erasing the memories of Zack and taking them for his own, he is dishonouring his friend and himself. He feels pretty guilty for the deaths of his friends. Once he realizes this, he comes clean, saves the world and is okay just being a regular guy who can say things like "Let's mosey" and "I'm not leaving without my friends." By destroying Sephiroth and letting Holy free, he completes Aeris' mission and absconds his guilt.

In AC, he starts off moody, arrogant, angry and oversensitive, because he tried to help a stranger and caught a life-threatening disease*. This gets worse as the emo disease makes him feel more guilty than ever for the deaths of his friends. Once he realizes this, he comes clean, saves the world and is okay just being a regular guy who can say things like "There's nothing I don't cherish" and "I'm not alone." By destroying the church flowers and letting Great Gospel free, he completes Aeris' mission and absconds his guilt.

Sure they added the family thing and a new wardrobe, and it can be argued that 'a lot can happen in two years,' and 'a tiger can't change its stripes' but then why the hell am I watching? A good sequel will give us a new character arc to explore, like Sister Act II (yeah I went there). There are always ways in which a character has to grow.

*Before ACC added this aspect of Cloud's character, there was no reason for his return to guilt. I'll give ACC credit for that, it certainly made AC more watchable... but 'good?' I dunno...

 

[Max Payne]

In the game he starts off moody, arrogant, angry and oversensitive, because he doesn't have a proper past to ground himself with, and what little he remembers is full of abandonment and self-doubt. This gets worse as this cute girl he likes dies, and he realizes that his brain is a soup, erasing the memories of Zack and taking them for his own, he is dishonouring his friend and himself. He feels pretty guilty for the deaths of his friends. Once he realizes this, he comes clean, saves the world and is okay just being a regular guy who can say things like "Let's mosey" and "I'm not leaving without my friends." By destroying Sephiroth and letting Holy free, he completes Aeris' mission and absconds his guilt.

In AC, he starts off moody, arrogant, angry and oversensitive, because he tried to help a stranger and caught a life-threatening disease*. This gets worse as the emo disease makes him feel more guilty than ever for the deaths of his friends. Once he realizes this, he comes clean, saves the world and is okay just being a regular guy who can say things like "There's nothing I don't cherish" and "I'm not alone." By destroying the church flowers and letting Great Gospel free, he completes Aeris' mission and absconds his guilt.

Sure they added the family thing and a new wardrobe, and it can be argued that 'a lot can happen in two years,' and 'a tiger can't change its stripes' but then why the hell am I watching? A good sequel will give us a new character arc to explore, like Sister Act II (yeah I went there). There are always ways in which a character has to grow.

*Before ACC added this aspect of Cloud's character, there was no reason for his return to guilt. I'll give ACC credit for that, it certainly made AC more watchable... but 'good?' I dunno...

lol

 

[Ite]

lol

lol

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I'm pretty sure we didn't play the same Final Fantasy VII, ite. That sounds absolutely nothing like Cloud's character arc in that game.

 

[linegenrou]

This gets worse as this cute girl he likes dies...

Oh noes