How long does it take before a body becomes lifestream particles?

[Danseru-kun]

DEATH SPOILERS!

Anyway, it's exactly what the question asks, just curious on what you think about this, and what are the circumstances. Example, Aerith's body stayed there for a while and I assumed that she became particles when she was laid on the lake (I think sinking to the deep water is symbolic and not to be taken as an animation error). Or was it Cloud's awesome timing? Zack and Lazard took a few minutes I guess, and Kadaj went to the Lifestream when he's still pretty much alive.

What do you think?

 

[Tetsujin]

I assumed people dissolving was only for the freakish mutants, and ordinary and enhanced-but-not-monster people still rot like everyone else.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I think the more mako you have in your body, the faster the process.

Have a look at this:

Spoiler: Bugenhagen explains spirit energy

http://ObstinateMelon.deviantart.com/art/Final-Fantasy-7-Page283-290906340

So my head canon says that when a body like Zack's dissolves into those pyrefly-like thingies, what's happening is just an accelerated process of decay - the mako-enhanced flesh decomposes instantly and releases the lifestream it contains in a single pyrotechnical burst of spirit energy. When ordinary people and other living things that have not been pumped full of mako die, they decay at a natural pace, and are eaten by worms, and stuff. Otherwise, every living thing would have starved to death; there could be no food if everything just evaporated the moment it stopped living. Zack's and Lazard's evaporations, among others, are simply more proof of how Shinra's tampering with mako messed up the natural order of things. Aerith is unique because she's half-Cetra, and the remnants aren't human at all; I think they might not even exist, corporeally speaking.

 

[Octo]

Yeah, if you remember President Shinra's body seemed to stick around (HA HA 'STICK AROUND' GET IT?! ) for a while and there were a few occasions where the party came across corpses of people (and the Midgar Zolom) Also, there are graveyards. So I'm going with the theory that only Mako enchanced types dissolve that way and everyone else just decomposes normally. Lets not forget artistic licence here either, It was a good thing Zack dissolved instead of lying there with that goofy look on his face

 

[Tetsujin]

I'm not even sure Zack dissolved tbh. I figured they found his body and took it away or something. I mean, it seems like those SOLDIER dudes from BC had been buried as well. I dunno.

Eitherway, I found the dissolving thing retarded anyway. Apart from with beings like Kadaj, it seems odd. Also, why do their clothes dissolve as well? And why do Genesis' clothes deteriorate with him? Are people one with their clothes? Is it some kind of cloth-zen-thing? Is that why they don't change their clothes for months or years at a time? I may be on to something here.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Also, why do their clothes dissolve as well? And why do Genesis' clothes deteriorate with him? Are people one with their clothes? Is it some kind of cloth-zen-thing? Is that why they don't change their clothes for months or years at a time?

I always wondered that!

 

[Octo]

Eitherway, I found the dissolving thing retarded anyway. Apart from with beings like Kadaj, it seems odd. Also, why do their clothes dissolve as well? And why do Genesis' clothes deteriorate with him? Are people one with their clothes? Is it some kind of cloth-zen-thing? Is that why they don't change their clothes for months or years at a time? I may be on to something here.

Shoddy craftmanship, thats what that is

Cloud and Zack always struck me as sweaty people, so I dunno...maybe the clothing had absorbed their genetic material

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

An alarm is going off at SE headquarters and Nomura is being dispatched as we speak to silence the voice of reason (i.e. Tets).

 

[Obsidian Fire]

Are people one with their clothes? Is it some kind of cloth-zen-thing? Is that why they don't change their clothes for months or years at a time?

It's not just SE that has this problem. I've yet to see anything animated where the magority of the cast has a costume change every day. Time skips do not count. It comes with the terretory.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

That's one thing I like about One Piece, actually. Sure Luffy wears the same outfit day in and day out, but the vest changed colors so we knew he had more than one to switch between.

 

[Ghost X]

Tis a work of fiction, I don't think the time it takes for a person to dissolve in FFVII - if they even dissolve at all (plenty o' dead bodies seen lying around in FF) - is an exact science. Just make it up if you're writing a fanfic.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Tis a work of fiction, I don't think the time it takes for a person to dissolve in FFVII - if they even dissolve at all (plenty o' dead bodies seen lying around in FF) - is an exact science. Just make it up if you're writing a fanfic.

I concur. The lack of any definitive answers is what makes their world so much fun to write about: it's wacky and inconsistent.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

It's funny the different values and expectations we bring to fiction. I find "wacky and inconsistent' a weakness.

 

[Ite]

It's funny the different values and expectations we bring to fiction. I find "wacky and inconsistent' a weakness.

Same.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

It varies for me, sometimes the wacky and inconsistent is fun, other times I wish they'd make up their damn minds on how shit works.

The Compilation needs to make up its goddamn mind

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

But attempting to reconcile the wacky inconsistencies is challenging and fun and gives us lots to talk about.

If the inconsistencies and continuity failures were in a book, I agree they would be annoying, but somehow, for me anyway, they only add to the Compilation's charm. I quite like how Square keep bringing out different versions of their own reality.

 

[Danseru-kun]

I just thought about it, I think dissolving is possible if you're aided by someone who has enough power in the Lifestream. In the case of Aerith, there's her mother Ifalna. Zack and probably Lazard too, was aided by Angeal. Kadaj is taken by Aerith. I think that makes sense.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

See, that's ingenious.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

What about Grimoire? Nevermind.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Forget Grimoire, who would come for Hollander?

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

That one's easy. Recently deceased SOLDIERs he'd experimented on who wanted to give his spirit energy a good noncorporeal asskicking before he diffused into the Lifestream.

Edit: My memory is suddenly telling me I might be mixing up names, but I stand by what I have here anyway. You don't get to be a high level shinra scientist without kicking many, many puppies.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

I concur. The lack of any definitive answers is what makes their world so much fun to write about: it's wacky and inconsistent.

It's funny the different values and expectations we bring to fiction. I find "wacky and inconsistent' a weakness.

For me it depends how it's being "wacky and inconsistent". For some fiction worlds, "wacky and inconsistent" is itself a consistency (FFVII, One Piece). In others, it's a true inconsistency. I like tinkering and playing around with ideas so "wacky and inconsistent" worlds are a lot more fun to play around with.

On the subject: just about everyone who's evaporated into the Lifestream falls into two catagories.
1) has a special relationship with or dies connected to the Planet (Aerith, Kadaj, Grimore)
2) has had more mako/jenova work done on them then a 1st Class SOLDIER.

My reasoning for the second catagory is that they have so much mako/Jenova in them, that the Panet doesn't think of them as human anymore.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

For me it depends how it's being "wacky and inconsistent". For some fiction worlds, "wacky and inconsistent" is itself a consistency (FFVII, One Piece).

One Piece is, while wacky, fairly internally consistent. The various characters, creatures and places might not always match up with the next set of characters, creatures and places, but that's explained by just how weird the Grand Line is and such. And applied phlebotium (such as the elemental rock-paper-scissors that comes with Devil Fruit powers) is always consistent. So for that, I think your "wacky and inconsistent is itself a consistency" makes some sense.

FFVII, and more so the Compilation, is lacking in consistency of that sort, same as real consistency as it were. Sometimes its wacky, and wacky can be fine. We're all fans of the crossdressing sequence right? But the inconsistencies are... well as an example some time ago I made a thread asking someone to help me fanwank Yuffie's absurd weakness in Case of Yuffie. No reason is given for it, she just absurdly powerful compared to the average human in the OG, suddenly incapable of breaking out of a room in Wutai, and then even more absurdly powerful by the time of AC/C.

Is it fun to try and come up with reasons for this sort of thing? Yes, it certainly can be. Does it still rather suck that SE can't see the need to keep things like this consistent or at least justified? Again, yes.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Well put. Wacky like Cait Sith is endearing. There's that, then there's absurd and fiction-breaking (e.g. the Yuffie discrepancy, the intact Shin-Ra building in DoC, Cait Sith being a remote controlled machine vs. something magically brought to life with Inspire)

 

[ForceStealer]

The main reason the instantly dissolving thing is stupid is because FF7 pretty heavily implies that the average person doesn't actually know what the Lifestream is or how it works. Otherwise why would Bugehagen have to explain it. But if dying people turned into the same green wispy stuff that would burst out of the planet or the tops of the reactors all the time...wouldn't people figure it out?

Although I suppose it's weird that the dissolving folk go upwards instead of into the ground, maybe that would be why Elmyra thinks the dead become stars in the sky? (gasp....that might actually make some sense...)

I always assumed that Sephiroth dissolved immediately because they were IN the Lifestream, so it wouldn't take very long. And Kadaj dissolving is okay too because he's not really a physical being.

I didn't think even Zack dissolved at the end of CC, I just thought we saw what was happening to his soul or whatever. But then again it would have made more sense for Zack to than for Lazard, so who knows.

And Tres, haven't you heard? CAIT SITH BREAKS FICTION