GamerSkull
Pro Adventurer
It’s almost like… they’re just translating based on what they see and there’s no bias. But I guess we’re in crazy land.
SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke
- Thread starter The Twilight Mexican
- Start date
Honestly, I dont even care what she remembers, she remembers she sells flowers doesn't she? Any flower seller that gets even slightly upset at her flowers being given to someone's significant other is beyond delusional
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Pivi
Rookie Adventurer
I think SE is very much preparing part 3 for a Zerith ending (Cloti is a given). Taken Zack's "coming together again" comment, Aerith's unsureness of liking or "liking" Cloud all points towards to a Zerith comeback. Crossing my fingers, because they really deserve happiness too in the end.
As for Cloud's crush or non-crush on Aerith, I think it really is dictated by player action, how much of a crush it really is. I played the game with my standard OCD maximalism, so I have done all sidequests, gave mostly favorable and positive answers for the conversation choices, and in the end I got every character to light blue relationship status by the time of the gold saucer date. I got Tifa for my date, but there were times when I interpreted Cloud's interactions with Aerith as that of a little crush. Actually, I think that Cloud's subconscious is deeply in love with Tifa, but his soldier persona has a crush on both Tifa and Aerith. Of course it's just my opinion, but there are scenes which can be optional, and can be interpreted of the romantic nature. For Aerith, one such is in the remake if she gets the best dress for Corneo. She's really a bombshell there, and Cloud behaves like he thinks so too. As for Tifa, the same kind of scene is the Costa Del Sol beachwear scene, where Cloud is totally smitten with her there. There're also sidequests in rebirth which can be on the romantic side a little. Nothing deep though.
But if we play the game without the player dictated scenes that favors Aerith, then there's no crush at all. There was a little in my playthrough, but that's ok, Cloud's a teenager mentally, and both girls are beauties. It's how it should be. :-)
GamerSkull
Pro Adventurer
Regardless of what’s canon in the final part, for most normal fans and even normal shippers it will be over. After that, those people will enjoy either a canon or fanon pairing and there won’t be much of a debate anymore.
The truth is, for more extreme shippers, this madness will never end.
The truth is, for more extreme shippers, this madness will never end.
nars305
🎵 I am so, so bored 🎶
I agree that the flower thing in general is strange. It’s strange in the sense that she smiles when she sees it at Tifa’s bar, so that was her first reaction. It’s also strange because he didn’t just give it to “a girl” he gave it to Tifa. Her friend…who she knows has a lot of history with Cloud…which she has to at the least know something is going on there…
It’s why I think the entire relationship web just muddies things when you look at it deeper.
It’s why I think the entire relationship web just muddies things when you look at it deeper.
overheat28
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Overheat
I totally agree but personally can't shake off a nasty suspicion Square Enix is addicted to using Zack as a punching bag at this point.
I am not discounting the possibility that they will use him as a sacrificial lamb to appease hardcore Cleriths. I wish they'd make it clearer so I could cut my losses and move on if need be. Aerith's behavior in Rebirth has not helped.
I started with Crisis Core and tried very hard to like Cloud. Ultimately, he never endeared himself to me. So at this point, my only interest in this trilogy is in seeing what happens to Zack. And I'd prefer them to telegraph ahead of time if they're going to shaft him so I can wash my hands of this, to be very honest.
WispyWave
Lv. 1 Adventurer
GamerSkull
Pro Adventurer
But what if they aren’t?
I get your doom and gloom but nothing so far indicates to me that they plan to shaft Zack, aside from angst that may not exist next game. Especially considering Kitase wants everyone to have a happy send-off.
They remastered his entire game in prep for this.
Is this true?In Japanese he just says "Cloud! Aerith!" so just a localization thing.
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nars305
🎵 I am so, so bored 🎶
I relate to you but in a different way. I love Cloud, but AC made me mad with his character for a moment. I know that he is a good character, but he put Tifa through a lot after the game events. I don’t know if it’s me being a woman or what. Tifa also was struggling with guilt and loss, and she was with Cloud from the moment she found him again up to saving his mind. But as soon as it got hard for him he left her alone and with two kids. I understand what was wrong with him, but at the same time…! At least Tifa did get to put him in his place and snap him out of it. So I came to find peace with that.
As far as Zack, I’m really hoping his part in all this is much bigger than fan service. Also, the moment him and Cloud reunite was kind of lackluster. He sees his best friend, who is a significant reason Cloud is the way he is, bad and good, but he just says Zack? Then they fight and he goes away. I guess they are in a crazy battle, but I don’t know, it was weird, I’d expect them to reunite with more time to see what is happening. There’s not even a mention anymore afterwards like, “I saw Zack” it just goes into Cloud looking uncanny with Aerith.
I’m hoping it will show him and Aerith doing their part in the lifestream to beat Sephiroth. That or Sephiroth does come for Aerith in another world, and Zack saves her.
Yoru
Pro Adventurer
I don't really agree. My OCD kicked in too and I have done all the content and quests before doing anything story related each chapter and I find the difference in treatement with the girl from Cloud POV kinda straighforward. He's legit pretty mean with Aerith when she tries a bit too hard. I felt bad for her multiple times.
The only truly wholesome and romantic moment they have is the photo quest in Cosmo Canyon. I don't see it romantic personally, but i agree it can be viewed like it.
Maybe we don't have the same definition of "crush". Reminds me of people in Remake that argue Cloud is falling in love because he's thinking about his mother lesson when he's at Aerith home... but forget that after this scene he's taking his leave never looking back. Good thing for him Aerith followed him in secret lol.
Again ! I'm not trying to reduce Aerith importance ! Bro is not blind. She's gorgeous. Funny. Caring. Maybe his Zack persona kicks in too. I don't really know. But I never really felt Cloud having romantic feelings for her.
And not saying you're wrong of course. It's just my interpretation.
WispyWave
Lv. 1 Adventurer
nars305
🎵 I am so, so bored 🎶
I used to think Cloud had feelings for both but after Rebirth I don’t see it that way anymore.
It is true, and sounds more like what he’s going to say is cut off because he falls.
nepheneethedestroyer
Lv. 25 Adventurer
Zack says クラウド、エアリスを-- he gets cut off, basically, but he's basically in the middle of asking Cloud to do [something] for Aerith, though the verb in his sentence gets cut off (that's what the を signifies). It's pretty clear I think that he's asking Cloud to save or take care of Aerith though.
Cloud is a 22 year old (mentally arguably younger) man and Aerith is a gorgeous woman who is flirty and upfront, it's totally normal that he is at least a little attracted to her. FF7/Re-Trilogy doesn't feel like it's especially great with timelines or accurately charting the passage of time, so I think Cloud falling totally in love with her is a bit extreme (and that goes for Aerith as well, even if she has some Zack-related hangups) but I've never questioned that he was at least attracted to Aerith lol. Who wouldn't be
WispyWave
Lv. 1 Adventurer
Oh, thank you !!
Yoru
Pro Adventurer
but I've never questioned that he was at least attracted to Aerith lol. Who wouldn't be
That's why we see things differently I think. Because for me finding someone attractive is not the same thing as having a crush.
(And I'm only speaking about the Re-trilogy. OG has not the same depiction of this relation)
nars305
🎵 I am so, so bored 🎶
It wouldn’t be hard to believe Zack would tell Cloud to save Aerith. Marlene only told him Cloud has to wake up because if he’s not better Sephiroth will hurt her.
When he’s falling and only has three seconds, I can see him wanting to at least say that with the chance he had.
When he’s falling and only has three seconds, I can see him wanting to at least say that with the chance he had.
WispyWave
Lv. 1 Adventurer
This was my thought when playing as well. I didn't even think twice about it. Zack doesn't know she just died? I only even looked up the Japanese because others seemed to be reading more into then me.
Yoru
Pro Adventurer
To be fair, people are so lost and confused at this moment in the game that I can relate with the overthinking of what's happening on the screenThis was my thought when playing as well. I didn't even think twice about it. Zack doesn't know she just died? I only even looked up the Japanese because others seemed to be reading more into then me.
Same, I used to argue that Cloud probably had some romantic affection for Aerith, but that it really shouldn't be held in the same regard as that which he has for the love of his life. But in rebirth he was so dismissive of her it kinda made me change my mind. Its like the game and cloud both went out of their way to contrast their behavior against his behaviour around tifa
Eerie
Fire and Blood
I saw that, apparently Lex is now a "toxic cloti". Sorry @Lex you're one of us now!
@nepheneethedestroyer I actually agree about your view on the ending, Cloud should not adopt Zack's stance in fact... he's playing his delusion and getting farther away from his true self, it's what the whole ending is telling me. This is why Tifa can't reach him at all and I wonder how this will play out in the beginning of the next game.
@overheat28 let me tell you I played only the main quest with a little Tifa sidequests, and the impression I got out of the game was strongly Zerith lol. Yes, that's how it looks from where I've played, it's really interesting when you skip nearly all the sidequests. So to me the game strongly sets their reunion in p3 and honestly I think it's good that Zack knows that Aerith grew feelings for Cloud.
What I found interesting with Tifa's sidequests and overall interactions is that they ground Cloud. They give him a hold of himself; they chat about food (the ones she'll make him in the future
), about their memories as kids. I feel very much that sense of him relying on those moments to believe that he is "Cloud of Nibelheim", that he very much needs those to continue to believe in himself.@Stiggie I always thought SOLDIER!Cloud did waver between the two but true!Cloud had chosen Tifa and never wavered because that's what we were told but the Remake trilogy really changed that narrative for something way more clear and less messy. I believe that in the OG it did not matter since it wasn't supposed to be extended beyond the OG, but with the Compilation and especially AC/C it really became a different beast and they had to face all the bad choices they made for the OG lol.
Ryushikaze
Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
- AKA
- Tim, Ryu
I have to assume it was intended as good natured ribbing. Like she knows Cloud has feelings for Tifa and is mock chastising him for "regifting" the flower.
The more I think about it, the more I think Aerith is representing a romantic state where in order to move forward, she needs to make advances to get rejected to move on. Like, she has no intentions towards Cloud, but without shooting her shot with the man her brain keeps screaming "ZACK" about, she can't get closure from that last relationship.
In partial defense of Cloud, he didn't run off and abandon her and the kids until he himself got the fatal wasting disease, and even then he was looking for a cure.
If I had to make an assumption, his thoughts were probably "Tifa has it hard enough taking care of Denzel and Marlene, and I am not worthy of her care, failure that I am. Couldn't save Zack or Aerith, can't save Denzel, can't even save myself. I'm just a burden like this so why be a burden on the thing that brings me happiness in this world?"
I have to assume Zack is being kept in the pocket for something interesting in PT3.
Probably reiterating his request from the end of CC.
21 years, actually. Aerith is 22. Zack is 23, Tifa is 20.
We do have a fairly established timeline for the first two parts of retrilogy, assuming they take place on the same dates as the OG. Remake takes place over a 3 day period starting December 9th, Rebirth takes place over the next few weeks, ending probably sometime around christmas or new year's day. This leaves Re part 3 to occur over the month of January, ending sometime in the latter 3rd of the month.and Aerith is a gorgeous woman who is flirty and upfront, it's totally normal that he is at least a little attracted to her. FF7/Re-Trilogy doesn't feel like it's especially great with timelines or accurately charting the passage of time, so I think Cloud falling totally in love with her is a bit extreme (and that goes for Aerith as well, even if she has some Zack-related hangups) but I've never questioned that he was at least attracted to Aerith lol. Who wouldn't be
Forgot to respond to this part, yeah, I'm fairly certain this is the case.
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nepheneethedestroyer
Lv. 25 Adventurer
Yeah...I'm kind of trying to find the angle that justifies it the best. I think in the other languages it just comes off pretty harsh where maybe they intended for it to be more of her gently teasing at Cloud. Regardless, I think it was a scene where that dialogue option just misses the mark of what they intended to portray, at least across the board regarding all localizations.
nepheneethedestroyer
Lv. 25 Adventurer
Thanks for the correction, I'm not too good with the actual numbers.
Yeah, I guess I personally have a tough time perceiving the passage of time (in Rebirth and also the OG specifically) in the games, I know there is an actual timeline for it though. Like in the actual experience of playing the game, I didn't really get a good sense of like "chapter 9 takes place two weeks after they leave Midgar" or whatever. Though maybe that's just my attention span
GamerSkull
Pro Adventurer
I think there might be an extra day or two in Remake now. There’s a day in between the two reactor bombings where Tifa and Cloud run around and then later Cloud helps Jessie. In the OG, I believe they go immediately the day after bombing Mako Reactor 1.
So I think Remake actually adds one or two days to the timeline.