A year later, how do you feel about the ending to Rebirth?

[Theozilla]

Yeah, it seems pretty evident that similar to AC, it’s not just that Sephiroth wants a large mass of people to be killed, it’s that he wants the conditions of the death to maximize an ongoing climate of negative emotions that he can corrupt into a black lifestream. The fact that the manner Sephiroth is going about it allows him to troll and mess with Rufus is an added bonus for him (plus as Ody said it is possible Sephiroth also has incorporated some aspect of Glenn into his arsenal as well, which can act as motivated tool).

 

[Clement Rage]

Hmm. It would be weird to spend that much time setting up Glenn and then make it not relevant because it's not actually him. I am hoping the real one is alive or exerting influence, somehow., even though that opens a can of worms about free willed Sephiroth clones.

If he wasn't very dedicated to screwing with Rufus, he would just kill him like his father. That would actually start the war he wants, because Heidegger already wants Wutai war 2 anyway. That was a whole thing in Remake, where Prez and Heidi keep blaming Wutai for stuff AVALANCHE is doing, because they already want to renew the war.

 

[Theozilla]

As I said, Sephiroth being able to mess with and troll Rufus is an added bonus for him, that isn’t the same as being super personally dedicated to messing with Rufus. Also just killing Rufus wouldn’t necessarily automatically start the war with Wutai, especially since killing President Shinra Sr. didn’t immediately start one. Sephiroth would have to stage the manner of Rufus’ death so that it seemed that it was carried out and coordinated by Wutai forces. And evidently that isn’t worth the effort to spend the time doing compared to letting things spiral on their own.

 

[Clement Rage]

He could do it wearing Glenn's face. Done.

Alternatively, out Rufus as Sarruff, creating an instant double civil war are hardline Wutai and Shinra loyalists are massively betrayed and turn on their masters.

One of the things that isn't very clear is why the Wutai war hasn't already kicked off.

Hawks:

Prez, Heidegger, Scarlet, Rufus (until his father's death), Shinra Resistance Committee (or else they wouldn't be the Shinra Resistance Committee), Sephiroth via Glenn.

Doves:

Reeve, Palmer, Godo. The first two have no power and Godo was overthrown specifically because he was a Dove. Rufus might secretly be a dove now that his father is dead but can't openly admit that.

Hojo is neutral, not because he's a pacifist but because he outright doesn't care.

All of the powerful people are hawks who have been spending their screentime doing false flag operations. In addition, Sonon and Yuffie outright broke into Shinra HQ and slaughtered a bunch of Shinra staff, and Yuffie tried to assassinate Rufus on live TV!

How did a peace treaty get signed in the first place with these people in charge, and why has President Shinra not already kicked off the war years ago if he wants it so badly? He can't openly break the terms, maybe, but he could just fabricate an excuse if he wanted, which is something Shinra does all the time (see: Sector 7)

This wouldn't matter so much, but a big hook into part 3 is whether/how the Wutai war kicks off, and Sephiroth concocting elaborate schemes to bring it about, but why does he need to when everyone with power already wants a war anyway, and has for years? The party will have to play some kind of role in this, but it's difficult to do that if the setup doesn't make sense to begin with.

The other thing is, Rufus can see whispers. They wouldn't have written that if it never comes up again, so he must have some kind of role in the whisper plot later? Rufus and Sephiroth agree that the Wutai war is a pointless distraction, but it's a pointless distraction that Sephiroth goes to significant effort to bring about even though he also doesn't care about it, and spends so much time screwing with specifically Rufus' head in the process, even at the expense of kicking off the war?. The story is clashing with itself, because Wutai war is a pointless distraction that is also really important, and somehow hasn't happened yet even though everyone with power already wanted it.

There's been so much time spent setting this up narratively, are they going to spend a big chunk of part 3 on something we have already been told doesn't really matter? Or are they going to drop the hook like they did the Remake Whispers? Tough thing to write either way.

 

[Theozilla]

He could do it wearing Glenn's face. Done.

Alternatively, out Rufus as Sarruff, creating an instant double civil war are hardline Wutai and Shinra loyalists are massively betrayed and turn on their masters.

Rufus being hypothetically killed by just Sephiroth wearing Glenn's wouldn't necessarily be enough to prove it was coordinated by Wutai as a whole. Also Rufus is essentially being outed as Sarruff, Sephiroth is just stretching out the process.

The other thing is, Rufus can see whispers. They wouldn't have written that if it never comes up again, so he must have some kind of role in the whisper plot later? Rufus and Sephiroth agree that the Wutai war is a pointless distraction, but it's a pointless distraction that Sephiroth goes to significant effort to bring about even though he also doesn't care about it, and spends so much time screwing with specifically Rufus' head in the process, even at the expense of kicking off the war?. The story is clashing with itself, because Wutai war is a pointless distraction that is also really important, and somehow hasn't happened yet even though everyone with power already wanted it.

There's been so much time spent setting this up narratively, are they going to spend a big chunk of part 3 on something we have already been told doesn't really matter? Or are they going to drop the hook like they did the Remake Whispers? Tough thing to write either way.

Sephiroth isn't really spending that much significant effort to troll Rufus and bring about war though? Also Sephiroth screwing with Rufus isn't necessarily coming at the expense of kicking off the war either. And Rebirth didn't drop the hook with the Whispers from Remake, it just didn't answer everything about them.

 

[LNK]

I thought the ending was great. It was very sad seeing the party (except for Cloud) react to Aerith's death. I love that Cloud has no idea what is going on and is looking crazy though. I'd bet it makes it even harder for the rest of the team to mourn Aerith. My only wish was they leaned even more into Cloud's delusions and had him actually kill Aerith. It'd would've been very interesting to have Cloud be the final boss

 

[Clement Rage]

I feel like the second in command of Wutai's current ruler apparently killing Shinra's President would be relevant to igniting the war. It might not prove it, but none of the other stuff that happened proved anything either. No one needs proof, just an excuse to do the thing they already want to do anyway.

If he's maintaining Glenn all the time, that seems like a good amount of effort. He'd have to be good enough at passing as him to fool Matt and Lucia. If the real Glenn is alive and actually running Wutai, that's less effort, but the Glenn that broadcast the empty chair has to be Sephiroth, because that is specifically screwing with Rufus at the expense of the war, because it makes Glenn and the SRC seem really stupid to not notice that their leader wasn't there.

The Whispers are no longer doing Fatey stuff. Across Remake, they had to keep constantly interfering to keep things on track. They're no longer interfering, but somehow things stayed on track anyway. Remake ends making a big deal about the 'boundless, terrifying freedom' that they now have, but nothing has been done with that so far.

 

[Theozilla]

I feel like the second in command of Wutai's current ruler apparently killing Shinra's President would be relevant to igniting the war. It might not prove it, but none of the other stuff that happened proved anything either. No one needs proof, just an excuse to do the thing they already want to do anyway.

If he's maintaining Glenn all the time, that seems like a good amount of effort. He'd have to be good enough at passing as him to fool Matt and Lucia. If the real Glenn is alive and actually running Wutai, that's less effort, but the Glenn that broadcast the empty chair has to be Sephiroth, because that is specifically screwing with Rufus at the expense of the war, because it makes Glenn and the SRC seem really stupid to not notice that their leader wasn't there.

Well, regardless of whether having Glenn kill Rufus would be sufficient to immediately reignite the war with Wutai, Sephiroth is already getting the process done his own way while having the added benefit of getting to mess with Rufus. So if messing with Rufus is something Sephiroth enjoys and he can achieve his goals without killing Rufus, there's not much compelling Sephiroth to murder Rufus at the present moment.

And the TV broadcast where Viceroy "Sarruf" was a "no show", that wasn't something that happened at the expense of fomenting war, if anything making the SRC seem stupid more likely contributed to creating even more unease and destabilization of the current paradigms.

Also Sephiroth has never indicated that utilizing Sephiroth copies for purposes of impersonation and whatnot takes much effort.

The Whispers are no longer doing Fatey stuff. Across Remake, they had to keep constantly interfering to keep things on track. They're no longer interfering, but somehow things stayed on track anyway. Remake ends making a big deal about the 'boundless, terrifying freedom' that they now have, but nothing has been done with that so far.

As I've stated multiple times here and on the discord the end of Remake didn't necessarily mean that the overall story of FFVII was going to be majorly changed going forwards (like the devs have literally been stating that since 2020. But the nature of the Whispers have most certainly been effected what with them now being split into white and black factions, which is almost certainly one of the consequences of their defeat in part 1. Like the fact that Whispers still showed up in Rebirth and interactecd with the plot is literally the definition of their hook not being dropped.