Changes in English Dub would you like to see?

[Max Payne]

You're fwkin kidding me, right? The whole "look at YOU, you think you got it SO DAMN HARD!" - "sounded uninterested in what was going on"?
yeah, w/e pal.

Because it's so hard for people to yell or sound angry? Feh she might not be completely devoid of emotion, but it sure as shit wasn't very good or convincing as far as I'm concerned.

Not at all, opinions are good as long as they don't make it seem you don't really know what you're talking about. But nice to see you try anyway...

I could say the very same thing to you, you're not helping your case. Just makes you seem incredibly incapable of accepting other people's opinions. You're basically just saying "YOU'RE WRONG BECAUSE YOU DON'T FEEL THE SAME WAY I DO".

You're welcome to feel she wasn't that bad and all, but I still think she was fucking awful, and they should have gotten someone actually interested in the role, or a seasoned VA with more than a few animation projects under her belt.

I hate Steve Burton for being a voice whore, but he's got the experience and doesn't sound like a fucking robot 90% of the time.

 

[holdthesun]

Because it's so hard for people to yell or sound angry? Feh she might not be complete devoid of emotion, but it sure as shit wasn't very good as far as I'm concerned.

damn, what did you expect her to do? pull a rabit out of her ass?

I could say the very same thing to you, you're not helping your case. Just makes you seem incredibly incapable of accepting other people's opinions.

Right ok, so just as an example (and mind you this doesn't necessarily apply to the case directly) - if someone delivers a groundbreaking performance in a flick and gets huge praise from the academy, as well as the regular audience. Then, this one guy stands up and says it was crap, is more likely an indication of ignorance and bad taste than of a serious, justified opinion based on quality preference. There's really a limit to how far you can stretch the whole "it's a matter of opinion" bullshit that gets so vastly overused in making up for a faulty arguement or just starting crap for the hell of it.

 

[Max Payne]

damn, what did you expect her to do?

Oh I don't know, ACT?

Right ok, so just as an example (and mind you this doesn't necessarily apply to the case directly) - if someone delivers a groundbreaking performance in a flick and gets huge praise from the academy, as well as the regular audience. Then, this one guy stands up and says it was crap, is more likely an indication of ignorance and bad taste than of a serious, justified opinion based on quality preference. There's really a limit to how far you can stretch the whole "it's a matter of opinion" bullshit that gets so vastly overused in making up for a faulty arguement or just starting crap for the hell of it.

That's not the case at all so this isn't none of that applies. Many feel she gave a serviceable performance and there are others who didn't like it at all like me. So does that mean my opinion is the only right one because a lot of people feel the same as I? Not for a fucking second.

I could come up with a dozen bullshit reasons for why you think she did well, but none of them would be applicable because I have no idea what goes on in your little head. So there's no reason to get all in a tiff about it, and making insignificant statements that fail to reinforce your stance.

 

[Masamune]

An opinion from its very definition can only be subjective, whether it's the majority or not.

For the record, I think RLC has the voice for Tifa but her voice-acting does let herself down at times.

 

[holdthesun]

That's not the case at all so this isn't none of that applies. Many feel she gave a serviceable performance and there are others who didn't like it at all like me. Are they wrong because there's people out there who thought it was good?

the thing is, you keep bringing something up about her not sounding interested in what was going on? Yeah, she does sound a little off in some cases, but you can't apply that to everything... there are cases, believe it or not, where subjectivity does not apply, and that was my point. So, in such cases, if you miss out on something, it's more your problem than anything else - raising her voice ain't hard, you say, but why the hell should it be? that's not the point... the scene I mentioned where you brought up "yelling being meh" was a good example of her being involved in what she was saying, ergo interested.

I could come up with a dozen bullshit reasons for why you think she did well, but none of them would be applicable because I have no idea what goes on in your little head.

Wait, don't bother excercising that mind of yours. I'll give you a... hand:

"Look (emphasis) at you (emphasis), you think you got it SO DAMN HARD! (more emphasis, which conveys that he is selfish and there are those who have it harder right now). Well, you hate being alone (the interrogative tone she uses intends to show Cloud his solitude is his own fault/choice), so let people in... (soft emphasis, while lowering her voice a little bit, this way provoking a thought in him) Sure, you may not answer the phone (instant switch to an irritated tone, clearly stressing the fact they keep calling him and he just ignore her and the others who are more than willing to help him), but I don't see you throwing it away, either (with extra emphasis on the bold text, again with intent to forcefully provoke thought in Cloud, so he would understand that he has a clear problem, and he needs to confront it now).

Your opinion Dacon, with all respect due regardless, is flawed and you just don't seem to get it. Again, she wasn't perfect, and plain BAD in some scenes, but she did have some good, well-acted moments. That's where I'm taking your credibility.

 

[Max Payne]

the thing is, you keep bringing something up about her not sounding interested in what was going on? Yeah, she does sound a little off in some cases, but you can't apply that to everything... there are cases, believe it or not, where subjectivity does not apply, and that was my point. So, in such cases, if you miss out on something, it's more your problem than anything else - raising her voice ain't hard, you say, but why the hell should it be? that's not the point... the scene I mentioned where you brought up "yelling being meh" was a good example of her being involved in what she was saying, ergo interested.

She still sounds uninterested and fake to me 90% percent of the time as I've said, and that makes for a bad performance as far as I'm concerned.

Your opinion Dacon, with all respect due regardless, is flawed and you just don't seem to get it. Again, she wasn't perfect, and plain BAD in some scenes, but she did have some good, well-acted moments. That's where I'm taking your credibility.

Hahahaha, ok.

Your opinion, holdthesun, with all respect due regardless, is flawed and you just don't seem to get it. Again, she wasn't that good, and outright AWFUL in some scenes, but she didn't sound like that all the time. Now I'm taking your credibility.

There is absolutely no way you can say my opinion is wrong, nor can I say yours is without compromising the simple common sense that opinions are subjective, and if properly informed and versed in the matter at hand, cannot be wrong.

She.

Does.

Not.

Sound good to me at all for most of the entire film. Sure you can blame that on bad dialogue, but her acting didn't help her. Sorry you can't accept that.

 

[holdthesun]

She still sounds uninterested and fake to me 90% percent of the time as I've said, and that makes for a bad performance as far as I'm concerned.

As far as your concerned, we'll pretty much leave it at that then.

Your opinion, holdthesun, with all respect due regardless, is flawed and you just don't seem to get it. Again, she wasn't that good, and outright AWFUL in some scenes, but she didn't sound like that all the time. Now I'm taking your credibility.

That was pretty pathetic, considering you have nothing to back up your agruement, ergo credibility, which I have in a thorough, justified and well-arguemented analysis that owns your "uniterested in her delivery" crap up the ass, at least for that scene. And, what do you have? "It's my opinion, and it's final! So, take it or leave it!" weeell, OKAAAY

 

[Max Payne]

That was pretty pathetic, considering you have nothing to back up your agruement, ergo credibility, which I have in a thorough, justified and well-arguemented analysis that owns your "uniterested in her delivery" crap up the ass, at least for that scene. And, what do you have? "It's my opinion, and it's final! So, take it or leave it!" weeell, OKAAAY

You have done nothing to prove me wrong. It's my opinion, and I did not have a positive impression of her performance. You cannot disprove that. All you're doing is saying "YOUR OPINION IS WRONG, MINE IS RIGHT". There's nothing analytic about your posts, all you did was copy paste from the lines in the film and add your own commentary. You just stated your opinion.

The woman just does not sound right to me, that's not something you can argue against, what is hard to understand about that? I can't tell you OMG YOUR OPINION IS WRONG, SHE DOESN'T SOUND RIGHT AT ALL AND YOU'RE IN DENIAL BECAUSE YOU'RE A FAN TARD. I could say that but it wouldn't be right.

 

[holdthesun]

You have done nothing to prove me wrong. It's my opinion, and I did not have a positive impression of her performance. You cannot disprove that. All you're doing is saying "YOUR OPINION IS WRONG, MINE IS RIGHT". There's nothing analytic about your posts, all you did was copy paste from the lines in the film and add your own commentary. You just stated your opinion.

WRONG! that commentary was focused on describing the intrinsic messages conveyed through voice changes, emphasis and shit, which is what voice-actors mainly focus on when bring their characters to life. If such messages exist, they are intentional and exist due to the person delivering them being interested in what he/she is talking about. We do this all the time unknowingly when talking to people, because we are involved and thus, interested in what we say.

You can argue about not liking it, but you can't argue about her performance in the scene being involved and interested. What you continuously fail to acknowledge is that I don’t stress opinions in my analysis (if you exclude all the interpretations, and just focus on how I stress voice changes, and emphasis that are used to convey intrinsic messages), I brought up a basic rhetoric and communication analysis used in formal study.

Anyway, you didn't like her voice acting, which is fine... that's your opinion. I didn’t like some of it either. But saying something like, - she wasn't interested all the time, is factually wrong. That's the point. My opinion is by no means superior to yours in mattes that allow for subjective thinking, but this was the case where you are wrong and that can be proven.

- If one reacts to a situation in such a way that the dynamics, pitch, tempo etc. etc. change relative to the delivered dialogue, leading to the appearance of subtle, intrinsic context, than this shows the person is INTERESTED and INVOLVED in the conversation. (you can fwkin read about this stuff in high-school literature)

I rest my case. Whatson! I need a drink.

 

[Max Payne]

WRONG! that commentary was focused on describing the intrinsic messages conveyed through voice changes, emphasis and shit, which is what voice-actors mainly focus on when bring their characters to life. If such messages exist, they are intentional and exist due to the person delivering them being interested in what he/she is talking about. We do this all the time unknowingly when talking to people, because we are involved and thus, interested in what we say.

Uh, you still were only stating your opinion.

You can argue about not liking it, but you can't argue about her performance in the scene being involved and interested.

Uh, yeah I can, because she still sounds uninterested in what's going on.

Anyway, you didn't like her voice acting, which is fine... that's your opinion. I didn’t like some of it either. But saying something like, - she wasn't interested all the time, is factually wrong. That's the point. My opinion is by no means superior to yours in mattes that allow for subjective thinking, but this was the case where you are wrong and that can be proven.

I never said she wasn't interested all the time, I said she sounds uninterested most of the time. Yes, you're thinking subjectively, you're stating your opinion, and you have yet to prove my opinion wrong. I think the word you were looking for there is objectively.
You just don't seem to like that I disagree with you, and therefore feel the need to try and somehow say my opinion is wrong.

- If one reacts to a situation in such a way that the dynamics, pitch, tempo etc. etc. change relative to the delivered dialogue, leading to the appearance of subtle, intrinsic context, than this shows the person is INTERESTED and INVOLVED in the conversation. (you can fwkin read about this stuff in high-school literature)

Yet she still sounds uninterested in most of the film to me. I hate to break it to you, but not everything sounds the same to everyone. Which is why I'm not trying to tell you your opinion is wrong here, unlike you.

 

[holdthesun]

Yet she still sounds uninterested in most of the film to me. I hate to break it to you, but not everything sounds the same to everyone.Which is why I'm not trying to tell you your opinion is wrong here, unlike you.

et she still sounds uninterested in most of the film to me.

Ok, I'll give you another try and move on. You are pointing to different things here. "Sounds" is what depends on your comprehension, and entirely subjective. It may sound like she is annoyed to you, while it may sound like she is calm to me.

What I am pointing to is the actual structure of her "delivery". Changing dynamics, tone, tempo are all part of that sturcture. You CAN argue about what what sound like, but you CANNOT argue about dynamics, tone, tempo, pitch changing if they HAPPEN TO CHANGE, otherwise you just have a hearing impairment. When a person is talking to you. Again, i'll try to make this clear for you, you MAY interpret these changes which ever way you wish, this is entirely subjective, but you can't deny them being there if they ARE there. That becomes a logical falacy. Now, finally, if they ARE there, that means the person delivering them IS interested and involved in the conversation, regardless of whether that interest sounds misplaced or vague in your opinion.
.
Me emphasizing the text is a good example by the way, you may call me uninterensted enough, but you can't argue that I am if I care to emphasize my points and stuff

 

[Animexcel]

Rachel Lee Cook is a very different take on Tifa than her Japanese counterpart, and I must say I like the former better even though a lot of you complain. Yeah, the "Dilly Dally" was awkward and should have been dropped, but at least, she took the effort of matching her voice with Tifa's facial expressions. The Japanese voice actor voicing Tifa was so detached it was irritating. The bedroom scene; you can clearly see she is hurt and sad, yet the Japanese girl delivers her lines like Tifa's scolding Cloud for not cleaning his room and shit. Or, when they are in the Church, and Tifa sees Cloud's stuff on the floor, you can tell that made her sad, yet the delivery is so plain that you're confused. Cook defo had her problems, often times unconvincing delivery, yet at least you could feel some emotion, that's why she wins in my book.[/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR]

Tifa's character is bright, cheerful, optimistic and positive. I could feel that sense by Ayumi Ito when she is concerned about Cloud in the bedroom. Yeah, she is hurt and sad, but still strong and tries to keep people up when they're down, not be emo with them.

 

[Max Payne]

Ok, I'll give you another try and move on. You are pointing to different things here. "Sounds" is what depends on your comprehension, and entirely subjective. It may sound like she is annoyed to you, while it may sound like she is calm to me.

No shit?

What I am pointing to is the actual structure of her "delivery". Changing dynamics, tone, tempo are all part of that sturcture. You CAN argue about what what sound like, but you CANNOT argue about dynamics, tone, tempo, pitch changing if they HAPPEN TO CHANGE, otherwise you just have a hearing impairment. When a person is talking to you. Again, i'll try to make this clear for you, you MAY interpret these changes which ever way you wish, this is entirely subjective, but you can't deny them being there if they ARE there. That becomes a logical falacy. Now, finally, if they ARE there, that means the person delivering them IS interested and involved in the conversation, regardless of whether that interest sounds misplaced or vague in your opinion.

I never said her performance doesn't change. She sounds ultimately uninterested in what she's doing most of the time, that doesn't mean she isn't trying. Sounding uninterested=/= not being interested. She doesn't sound like she is is all. You're just rambling now.
.

Me emphasizing the text is a good example by the way, you may call me uninterensted enough, but you can't argue that I am if I care to emphasize my points and stuff

Ok? I honestly don't see the point in your arguing with me.

 

[holdthesun]

Again,

"Look (emphasis) at you (emphasis), you think you got it SO DAMN HARD! (more emphasis, which conveys that he is selfish and there are those who have it harder right now). Well, you hate being alone (the interrogative tone she uses intends to show Cloud his solitude is his own fault/choice), so let people in... (soft emphasis, while lowering her voice a little bit, this way provoking a thought in him) Sure, you may not answer the phone (instant switch to an irritated tone, clearly stressing the fact they keep calling him and he just ignore her and the others who are more than willing to help him), but I don't see you throwing it away, either (with extra emphasis on the bold text, again with intent to forcefully provoke thought in Cloud, so he would understand that he has a clear problem, and he needs to confront it now).

whether you liked it or not, the dynamics-tone-pitch,tempo changes in Cooks voice throughout that delivery where intentional to make way for intrinsic messages, which I pointed out in my commentary. This proves that she is interested and involved as a character in that scene. Whether or not you found it convincing enough, is totally you own problem. Tis all.

 

[Max Payne]

Whatever, you seem incapable of accepting my opinion, so I don't really care.

I'm too tired and sick to give enough of a damn to saying anything else on the matter.

 

[holdthesun]

Whatever, you seem incapable of accepting my opinion, so I don't really care.

I'm too tired and sick to give enough of a damn to saying anything else on the matter.

well, at least we connected

 

[BlueShadow]

Well in any case, maybe there wouldn't have been an argument if not for this?

Cook emotion? ok there.

 

[Max Payne]

It's done, drop it.

 

[holdthesun]

Just watched a few exerpts from ACC, for some reason the Japanese Tifa is starting to grow on me, and now that I really looked into it she does a much better job than Cook, it's just... different, from when I watched AC with Cook for the first time. But I feel there's still a lot of "growing on me" to happen for me to like her in ACC

 

[Azuki]

I've already seen the dub for ACC. Basing my opinions on what I've seen.

Recast Reno lol. He's probably the only one in the dub whom I cannot stand at all (besides Kadaj, but he is suppose to sound like a whiny teenager), I'm generally not for dubs anyways, but his voice is the only one that gets on my nerves. Not a fan of Flynn's voice either, so that's probably another reason why I can't stand it lol.

And for the characters to pronounce Elena right, I think Steve Blum (Vincent) was the only person to pronounce her name right.

Other than that, it was quite bearable.

 

[Channy]

Yah but who knows, they pronouce shit differently than we do. I mean, how many of us thought it was May-ko and not Mah-ko?

 

[Azuki]

Has always pronounced it Mah-ko lol
It's costly and whatever, but they should watch the original to see how things are pronounced or something.

Seriously though, original (+ Blum) El-lee-na, Dub (Reno and Rude, only ones I can think of who said her name), El-Lain-na. I'm already over the fact of it since I've already ranted about it to a friend lol. But whatever.

 

[haichinamie]

To be honest the Japanese dub is of course the superior one because of the amount of underwhelming English voice actors that they chose... but they could have been worse in any case... meh. Mena Suvari has got to go. Andrea Bowen stay. Even though she kinda sucks too.