Deepground questions

[MetalGhost]

While I know that technically the reason is that they hadn't been designed yet, what in world justification might there have been for not deploying Deepground during the original game?

 

[ForceStealer]

Well I guess there's the fact that Rufus didn't even know about them. Scarlet and Heidegger do but they may have written it off as a failed project and don't realize the the size of the force down there and their equipment because it is frankly preposterous, lol. But Shinra in general seems to have a severe problem with its right hand not knowing what the left is doing, so I could see it being overlooked.

As for us, nothing more than an Easter egg, thanks.

 

[MetalGhost]

Wouldn't the Turks have told him?

 

[ForceStealer]

Wouldn't the Turks have told him?

That assumes the Turks know.

 

[Shademp]

It might be that Deepground's revolt against the Restrictors is taking place during the original game. The timeline of the online mode's story is a bit ambiguous but it's entirely possible that it takes place right before Meteorfall.

Knowing then that Deepground and the Tsviets can't be controlled (any longer), Scarlet and Heidegger know that sending the DG troops against Weapon, Jenova and Sephiroth simply isn't an option.

But that's just my headcanon. Again, the timeline with Dirge's online mode is unclear.

 

[MetalGhost]

That assumes the Turks know.

The Turks are the ones who "recruited" Azul, so one would presume they knew.

 

[ForceStealer]

I could be misremembering because Before Crisis is stupid, but weren't they just recruiting him for SOLDIER, as far as they knew?

 

[MetalGhost]

I could be misremembering because Before Crisis is stupid, but weren't they just recruiting him for SOLDIER, as far as they knew?

I'm not sure either. On the wiki it says specifically Deepground, and on the history of Deepground page from this site it just says SOLDIER, but is ambiguous about which SOLDIER program. I personally find it unlikely that the Turks wouldn't know about it, but it's at least plausible, if dissatisfying.

 

[Clement Rage]

What would they be useful for? Put Deepground against WEAPON, they just get steamrolled. Set them against AVALANCHE, they will massacre a random town and AVALANCHE will have moved on by the time they get there.

They could have been useful for assaulting the North Cave, but only once the barrier was down, at which point Heidegger and Scarlet were dead, Rufus was unconscious, and Reeve genuinely didn't know about them.

Honestly, I think it's unlikely Rufus didn't know about them, but he may have assumed they died with Midgar.

Edit: The could send the Tsviet's alone as some kind of adventuring party, but Azul is weak to magic, Shelke's weapons don't work in the rain, Rosso would just slaughter everyone she meets, and Nero and Weiss are too powerful to let loose.

Hmm... actually, there's an interesting possibility if the Tsviets get sent after Sephiroth before he gets to the North Cave. Nero and Weiss might be able to take him, although I suppose there's a risk they might just switch sides.

 

[MetalGhost]

I feel like they would have been deployed after Meteor was summoned and Avalanche escaped Junon, for damage control if nothing else. Rufus just had a bunch of high profile terrorists publically escape execution. Perfect opportunity for such a thing, and my understanding of Rufus is that he would certainly consider that option, even if he didn't take it.

I disagree that they would have been steamrolled against the Weapons. Diamond in specific I feel like Deepground would have been particularly useful against. Even if they can't necessarily beat it, they could easily have delayed/distracted it long enough for heavy artillery to be positioned.

And as you say, they would almost certainly have been perfect for an assault on the Northern Crater. Even if the people who were in charge all died, plans were obviously already made, and so it stands to reason that they would have been sent there before the barrier was removed, since I don't think logistically it would make sense to take the barrier down THEN convoy a thousand plus military group there.

Not saying that your points aren't valid, just not as strong/satisfying as I might wish.

 

[MetalGhost]

And I just remembered Fort Condor too. In the game, there's apparently over twenty battles in Shinra's campaign to take over the fort. I feel like that would also be a solid use for Deepground.

 

[MetalGhost]

It might be that Deepground's revolt against the Restrictors is taking place during the original game. The timeline of the online mode's story is a bit ambiguous but it's entirely possible that it takes place right before Meteorfall.

Knowing then that Deepground and the Tsviets can't be controlled (any longer), Scarlet and Heidegger know that sending the DG troops against Weapon, Jenova and Sephiroth simply isn't an option.

But that's just my headcanon. Again, the timeline with Dirge's online mode is unclear.

Sorry I didn't see this earlier somehow. That is plausible, and according to this timeline is actually accurate. Interesting.

 

[Shademp]

I can't believe I forgot to check the official timeline for this.

Oh actually I can believe that. I was totally expecting the official timeline to ignore Dirge's online mode. XD

Thanks for looking it up MetalGhost!

 

[Clement Rage]

(redundantly keeps arguing)

We see what happens when Junon garrison fires everything it has at Sapphire Weapon (not much), and Deepground has the same basic arsenal of rockets and bullets. Diamond is even invulnerable to physical attacks in its boss battle, and physical attacks are all Deepground has except for a couple of the Tsviets.

After Junon, Shinra's desperately trying to keep the public on their side. Revealing they'd been kidnapping people for years for science experiments wouldn't help in that regard.

 

[Roger]

(redundantly keeps arguing)

We see what happens when Junon garrison fires everything it has at Sapphire Weapon (not much), and Deepground has the same basic arsenal of rockets and bullets. Diamond is even invulnerable to physical attacks in its boss battle, and physical attacks are all Deepground has except for a couple of the Tsviets.

After Junon, Shinra's desperately trying to keep the public on their side. Revealing they'd been kidnapping people for years for science experiments wouldn't help in that regard.

Omega, Ruby and Emerald are each brought down by AVALANCHE with conventional weapons. The Tsviets and the rest of the massive army of SOLDIERs Deepground might've done the same.

 

[ForceStealer]

"Conventional weapons"

 

[MetalGhost]

(Redundantly provides counter-arguments)

We know that the weapons are likely out of their league, but they don’t know that. And even if they did, just because you think you might lose doesn’t mean you’re not going to try. Both history and literature are filled with desperate and/or tactical last stands. I also feel like they would have access to materia, since Shinra mass produces it (I’m not sure why they don’t use much in DoC, but whatever that reason, it’s canon that Shinra mass produces materia so it seems reasonable to assume that they would equip their units with it).

Just deploying Deepground doesn’t mean that the public would necessarily find out about the particular issues. This is a time or huge turmoil and fear, the people want protection. I liken it to the surge of patriotism that occurred after 9/11 in the US. You can do and justify all sorts of things with an active and visible enemy present.

 

[Clement Rage]

By the time the party is fighting Weapons, they're using unique one off super materia, limit breaks, and glitches in the AI, tactics like murdering 2/3 of the party, and foreknowledge of exactly what the weapon will do. Not exactly conventional. Even Ultima Weapon requires an airship, which Shinra have lost by the time it appears.

Anything DG can do, Shinra's existing army can do, at much less risk.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Because President Shinra died before he even got to contemplate releasing his secret army of psychotic mass-murdering super-soldiers onto the world. Which would have been an extremely poor and terrible idea, in and of itself.

Jenova Sephiroth impaled the Masamune through his back and killed the President before he even had the chance to contemplate releasing Deepground. When the Shinra Building was attacked by Jenova Sephiroth, nobody saw it coming and he was caught completely unaware. And because of that, all knowledge of the Deepground army died with him. Remember, Jenova was sound asleep, seemingly inert and preserved in its holding tank, missing its head. No one anticipated the thing springing to life, shapeshifting into Sephiroth and going on a killing rampage before heading off from Midgar to start its comeback world tour.

And again, to emphasize... Unleashing Deepground on Sephiroth would have been an extremely shit idea from the start. For one, the baseline Deepground soldier is only about a cut above a regular SOLDIER and would not fare any better against Sephiroth and his monsters. In the end, they're just suped up Stormtroopers with neon blue gotta-go-fast stripes.

That leaves the Tsviets which are again. Psychotic mass-murdering super-soldiers who are barely able to be kept under control with chips in their brains.

Rosso is an unhinged and murderous psychopath. She kills her own allies for sport so there goes any use of her in any sort of operational capacity.

Nero is a walking time-bomb of fulminating darkness that could just as easily X-Zone away his fellow soldiers along side his target. Not to mention, he goes apeshit if his brother is out of earshot.

Azul is a behemoth-man with a mini-gun. Okay... And? (And FYI, the BC chapter with him in it, has the Turks recruiting him for SOLDIER, not Deepground, so no. Turks are unaware of what he's really going to be used for and he just fucks off forever as far as they know.)

Shelke's a perpetual loli who's only good at surfing the net and coordinating troop commands with her SND. She's absolutely useless out in the field.

And that just leaves Weiss, who's just a dick. A very strong, powerful and charismatic dick, who would be extremely difficult to command without Restrictor's constant supervision. Good luck watching him 24/7 to ensure he's actually doing his job pursuing Sephiroth and not fomenting rebellion against Shinra!

...We all saw how well THAT worked out, right?

The only time we see a Tsviet ever allowed topside was to retrieve Genesis and that was a fraught, and limited operation due to how dangerous and uncontrollable they are. When the red-coated wannabe Sephiroth raised hell across the planet for years after the Wutai War, President Shinra refrained from using Deepground until the last possible minute and only sent two with supervision. Why? Because they're insane and utterly uncontrollable for long lengths of time.

Trying to release an army of mass murdering super soldiers in hopes they'd somehow beat Sephiroth, the ultimate murdering super soldier, would be like trying to put out a forest fire using jet fuel in a futile attempt to burn the fire away. Throwing more deranged and dangerous super soldiers at the strongest super soldier of all is a surefire way to maximize total destruction of the planet.

 

[Roger]

Because President Shinra died before he even got to contemplate releasing his secret army of psychotic mass-murdering super-soldiers onto the world. Which would have been an extremely poor and terrible idea, in and of itself.

Jenova Sephiroth impaled the Masamune through his back and killed the President before he even had the chance to contemplate releasing Deepground. When the Shinra Building was attacked by Jenova Sephiroth, nobody saw it coming and he was caught completely unaware. And because of that, all knowledge of the Deepground army died with him.

Hojo, Scarlet and Heidegger know about Deepground, if not others. President Shinra wasn't bringing Deepground food personally using his private elevator every day. Nor did he build Deepground persnonally with his own two hands. There's an infrastructure in place at Shinra that maintains Deepground.

Remember, Jenova was sound asleep, seemingly inert and preserved in its holding tank, missing its head. No one anticipated the thing springing to life, shapeshifting into Sephiroth and going on a killing rampage before heading off from Midgar to start its comeback world tour.

And again, to emphasize... Unleashing Deepground on Sephiroth would have been an extremely shit idea from the start. For one, the baseline Deepground soldier is only about a cut above a regular SOLDIER and would not fare any better against Sephiroth and his monsters. In the end, they're just suped up Stormtroopers with neon blue gotta-go-fast stripes.

There are few enough SOLDIERs that they operate out of a single floor in Shinra HQ. Deepground is big enough to populate a CITY. They also have thousands of robots and helicopters. If none of that is relevant, then what was Shinra combating the Weapons with that Barret commented on?

That leaves the Tsviets which are again. Psychotic mass-murdering super-soldiers who are barely able to be kept under control with chips in their brains.

Rosso is an unhinged and murderous psychopath. She kills her own allies for sport so there goes any use of her in any sort of operational capacity.

Nero is a walking time-bomb of fulminating darkness that could just as easily X-Zone away his fellow soldiers along side his target. Not to mention, he goes apeshit if his brother is out of earshot.

Azul is a behemoth-man with a mini-gun. Okay... And? (And FYI, the BC chapter with him in it, has the Turks recruiting him for SOLDIER, not Deepground, so no. Turks are unaware of what he's really going to be used for and he just fucks off forever as far as they know.)

What do you mean And? Why can't Azul be used ever?

Shelke's a perpetual loli who's only good at surfing the net and coordinating troop commands with her SND. She's absolutely useless out in the field.

And that just leaves Weiss, who's just a dick. A very strong, powerful and charismatic dick, who would be extremely difficult to command without Restrictor's constant supervision. Good luck watching him 24/7 to ensure he's actually doing his job pursuing Sephiroth and not fomenting rebellion against Shinra!

You're leaving out the Restrictors themselves. Each of them completely loyal, and more powerful then Rosso.

...We all saw how well THAT worked out, right?

The only time we see a Tsviet ever allowed topside was to retrieve Genesis and that was a fraught, and limited operation due to how dangerous and uncontrollable they are. When the red-coated wannabe Sephiroth raised hell across the planet for years after the Wutai War, President Shinra refrained from using Deepground until the last possible minute and only sent two with supervision. Why? Because they're insane and utterly uncontrollable for long lengths of time.

Trying to release an army of mass murdering super soldiers in hopes they'd somehow beat Sephiroth, the ultimate murdering super soldier, would be like trying to put out a forest fire using jet fuel in a futile attempt to burn the fire away. Throwing more deranged and dangerous super soldiers at the strongest super soldier of all is a surefire way to maximize total destruction of the planet.

Then why do they have it? Why was Deepground still growing? If nothing, absolutely nothing justifies deploying them, why are they still arming them? Why add Genesis to their number?

 

[Makoeyes987]

Hojo, Scarlet and Heidegger know about Deepground, if not others. President Shinra wasn't bringing Deepground food personally using his private elevator every day. Nor did he build Deepground persnonally with his own two hands. There's an infrastructure in place at Shinra that maintains Deepground.

I know Hojo is also aware of them, but are we certain Scarlet and Heidegger do? Yes there's an infrastructure for Deepground but they are mostly left underground and hardly ever used.

There are few enough SOLDIERs that they operate out of a single floor in Shinra HQ. Deepground is big enough to populate a CITY. They also have thousands of robots and helicopters. If none of that is relevant, then what was Shinra combating the Weapons with that Barret commented on?

That's the case of SOLDIER in Crisis Core but to assume that there's only that many SOLDIERs by the time FFVII's main plot rolls along is assuming no mass recruitment or attempt to rebuild happened in the years since Genesis's defection near the end of the Wutai War. Why would that be the case with a company that has resources like Shinra Inc? I don't think SOLDIER is so small years later, given that Shinra would not leave their security force so hollowed out.

What do you mean And? Why can't Azul be used ever?

I meant, "And" as in... That's it. He's not impressive. His gimmick is he morphs into a Behemoth and carries a giant mini-gun when in his human form. Vincent beat him one-on-one with Chaos and mutilated him. Arch-Azul is a Behemoth monster man.

You're leaving out the Restrictors themselves. Each of them completely loyal, and more powerful then Rosso.

I wouldn't say they're stronger or more powerful than Rosso. They're only able to control Rosso thanks to the chip in her head. But the Tsviets themselves are the strongest of all Deepground Soldiers. Restrictors aren't necessarily stronger than them, they just have the means to make them comply.

Then why do they have it? Why was Deepground still growing? If nothing, absolutely nothing justifies deploying them, why are they still arming them? Why add Genesis to their number?

Guess we'll never know since nothing ever happened with Deepground, Genesis or that entire sub-plot that mattered

They were a group of enemies that were created for post-Meteorfall FFVII. We'll never ever know unless a subsequent title post DC is made. But it's not hard to figure out that given the volatility and insanity the Tsviets carry, deploying all of them on a hunt for Sephiroth would be dangerous, given how each of them have their reason to not obey Shinra and would take any chance they could to escape or turn on the Restrictors.

Expecting the Restrictors to somehow be able to fight at full capacity while watching their backs, ordering the rest of the thousands of Deepground Soldiers, and also ensuring the Tsviets are under proper control while following their own orders would be a hilarious and doomed undertaking.

Shelke and the Tsviets were able to outfox and overthrow the Restrictors in the controlled and monitored environment of Deepground. What makes you think that in the wide open world, the Restrictors somehow would fare better in managing their rainbow mutant charges with thousands of other variables and distractions to occupy them on the surface? The main point of the multiplayer mode story is to show that the Tsviets are too powerful and unstable to be kept under control. One way or another, they would find a means to be free.

And assuming the Tsviets would somehow be able to overwhelm or defeat Sephiroth is an underestimation of how powerful Sephiroth was and why he was labeled the strongest SOLDIER of all.

 

[Roger]

I know Hojo is also aware of them, but are we certain Scarlet and Heidegger do? Yes there's an infrastructure for Deepground but they are mostly left underground and hardly ever used.

They're armed with the latest tech, a massive part of Shinra manpower is allocated to Deepground. These are things that fall under Scarlet an Heidegger's domains.

That's the case of SOLDIER in Crisis Core but to assume that there's only that many SOLDIERs by the time FFVII's main plot rolls along is assuming no mass recruitment or attempt to rebuild happened in the years since Genesis's defection near the end of the Wutai War. Why would that be the case with a company that has resources like Shinra Inc? I don't think SOLDIER is so small years later, given that Shinra would not leave their security force so hollowed out.

The before Nibelheim portions of Crisis Core takes place over the course of two years. We don't hear about a big recruitment drive then. Zack continues to get Shinra texts and it's not mentioned there.

I meant, "And" as in... That's it. He's not impressive. His gimmick is he morphs into a Behemoth and carries a giant mini-gun when in his human form. Vincent beat him one-on-one with Chaos and mutilated him. Arch-Azul is a Behemoth monster man.

I wouldn't say they're stronger or more powerful than Rosso. They're only able to control Rosso thanks to the chip in her head. But the Tsviets themselves are the strongest of all Deepground Soldiers. Restrictors aren't necessarily stronger than them, they just have the means to make them comply.

Guess we'll never know since nothing ever happened with Deepground, Genesis or that entire sub-plot that mattered

They were a group of enemies that were created for post-Meteorfall FFVII. We'll never ever know unless a subsequent title post DC is made. But it's not hard to figure out that given the volatility and insanity the Tsviets carry, deploying all of them on a hunt for Sephiroth would be dangerous, given how each of them have their reason to not obey Shinra and would take any chance they could to escape or turn on the Restrictors.

Expecting the Restrictors to somehow be able to fight at full capacity while watching their backs, ordering the rest of the thousands of Deepground Soldiers, and also ensuring the Tsviets are under proper control while following their own orders would be a hilarious and doomed undertaking.

Shelke and the Tsviets were able to outfox and overthrow the Restrictors in the controlled and monitored environment of Deepground. What makes you think that in the wide open world, the Restrictors somehow would fare better in managing their rainbow mutant charges with thousands of other variables and distractions to occupy them on the surface? The main point of the multiplayer mode story is to show that the Tsviets are too powerful and unstable to be kept under control. One way or another, they would find a means to be free.

And assuming the Tsviets would somehow be able to overwhelm or defeat Sephiroth is an underestimation of how powerful Sephiroth was and why he was labeled the strongest SOLDIER of all.

We see that the Restrictors are able to beat Rosso easily one on one. These guys were the best of the best of SOLDIER till Sephiroth came along. Ragnarok, the next best team got slaughtered by them easily.

And I'm not saying they are a sure-fire solution. But the alternative they went with is sending the Turks after them or going themselves, go begging to Cid for one more flight-capable vehicle. They know Sephiroth killed the President and is searching for the Promised Land. Then they go looking themselves, knowing and expecting to encounter Sephiroth.

If deploying thousands under the Restrictors is a bad idea sending hundreds, if hundreds are a bad idea send dozen. If even a dozen SOLDIERs (each of which is more super then the Turks), then just send the Restrictors and Azul. If not one Restrictor can be spared back at Deepground just send their enormous armada of unmanned robots.

If none of that is worth trying then why is anything even worth trying? Why even send the Gelnika at all. Why not just lie down and wait for death or hope Sephiroth just disappears?

What situation are the lights kept on at Deepground for? They are a continuous drain on Shinra resources yet very much trapped, if utilising them in anyway is sure to result in the end of Shinra just nuke them.

There is no good explanation for them.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I know Hojo is also aware of them, but are we certain Scarlet and Heidegger do?

Reeve only learned of Deepground from Scarlet's files, and concluded Heidegger and Hojo knew as well.

But it's not hard to figure out that given the volatility and insanity the Tsviets carry, deploying all of them on a hunt for Sephiroth would be dangerous ...

What makes you think that in the wide open world, the Restrictors somehow would fare better in managing their rainbow mutant charges with thousands of other variables and distractions to occupy them on the surface?

I'm not sure why you're focusing on the "hunt" portion of the conflict with Sephiroth when there's a much more practical point to have deployed Deepground. Shin-Ra was planning a mass invasion of the crater for once Sephiroth's barrier was down.

And assuming the Tsviets would somehow be able to overwhelm or defeat Sephiroth is an underestimation of how powerful Sephiroth was and why he was labeled the strongest SOLDIER of all.

Avalanche pulled it off.

Are they supposed to be far and away more powerful than the Tsviets? More powerful than the Tsviets + the Restrictors? More powerful than the Tsviets + the Restrictors + the rest of Deepground?

And like @Roger said, with the alternative being the imminent end of the world, what was there to lose by trying? Should they not try just because they may lose? =P

If Weiss and Nero of all people got sent out on a much less problematic occasion (i.e. retrieving Genesis when he was just holed up in a cave without even making all that much ruckus anymore), then it's perfectly within the realm of reason to send them to take on a much greater threat during the most desperate of circumstances.

 

[Makoeyes987]

The before Nibelheim portions of Crisis Core takes place over the course of two years. We don't hear about a big recruitment drive then. Zack continues to get Shinra texts and it's not mentioned there.

Actually we do. In Before Crisis episode 14 which introduces Azul.

The Turks were responsible with finding candidates for SOLDIER, and they had been assigned this task to make up for the losses that were incurred during the "incident" during the Wutai War. Which in turn led the Turks to Costa del Sol and finding a man obsessed with combat named Azul. The self-same individual who would later become the Tsviet in Deepground. Turks were also responsible for finding candidates for SOLDIER, which was actually stated by Cloud to Aerith when he first met her after he fell through her church and helped her elude Reno.

The Turks were the ones instigating a recruitment for new SOLDIER candidates and one of those candidates was Azul himself.

We see that the Restrictors are able to beat Rosso easily one on one. These guys were the best of the best of SOLDIER till Sephiroth came along. Ragnarok, the next best team got slaughtered by them easily.

You must be referring to the fight she had with one in Multiplayer Mode Scene 8, right? Yes, the Restrictor parried her blows and stabbed her in the end but realize that that would not be enough to even come close to killing her. And given that she said she wanted to "play a little," that sparring match wasn't the full extent of her abilities as shown in Dirge of Cerberus. Given the abilities and power of Tsviets, the Tsviets are without question stronger than a SOLDIER. Restrictors are strong but the abilities wielded by Tsviets are beyond that. Hence why they need to have the chips in order to maintain order.

And I'm not saying they are a sure-fire solution. But the alternative they went with is sending the Turks after them or going themselves, go begging to Cid for one more flight-capable vehicle. They know Sephiroth killed the President and is searching for the Promised Land. Then they go looking themselves, knowing and expecting to encounter Sephiroth.

If deploying thousands under the Restrictors is a bad idea sending hundreds, if hundreds are a bad idea send dozen. If even a dozen SOLDIERs (each of which is more super then the Turks), then just send the Restrictors and Azul. If not one Restrictor can be spared back at Deepground just send their enormous armada of unmanned robots.

If none of that is worth trying then why is anything even worth trying? Why even send the Gelnika at all. Why not just lie down and wait for death or hope Sephiroth just disappears?

Because while it may be a desperate situation, the inherent risk of having the Deepground Soldiers turning an already hopeless situation more hopeless is a very real prospect. Maybe like you said, sending a few wouldn't be that much of a risk but given the state of the world and the situations that unfolded, the entire prospect is not even considered. Why? Either Deepground were presumably so fucked up with the Tsviets overthrowing Restrictor that they were written off indefinitely, or they considered it and thought it was too dangerous on its own. But that's what happened. That's how the narrative unfolded.

When the Restrictors were presumably overthrown and defeated, they sent a signal to Weiss's brain chip that released a virus inside his body to kill him, presumably as a safety measure and ensure that he wouldn't be able to go rogue and escape. This of course leads into the plot of DC where Weiss looked for a cure and ended up getting hijacked by the data-Hojo that resided in the Shinra network.

Presumably, there were other failsafes that were in place to ensure Deepground would not be accidentally released when no one was there to control them. It's probable that due to their overthrow of Restrictor, Shinra was alerted and knew to keep them locked up for their own safety.

What situation are the lights kept on at Deepground for? They are a continuous drain on Shinra resources yet very much trapped, if utilising them in anyway is sure to result in the end of Shinra just nuke them.

There is no good explanation for them.

Well the drain is pretty minimal since they just utilize Mako Reactor 0 and they're allowed leeway to seemingly exist and continue training. But what situation are they utilized for? Well we'll never know. If anything, they appear more like a science project experiment that's completely gone out of control and is now too big to shelve. And considering they reside right underneath the headquarters of Shinra and the center of Midgar, "nuking" them isn't really an option.

Reeve only learned of Deepground fr Scarlet's files, and concluded Heidegger amd Hojo knew as well.

Ahh, right. I haven't played that part in forever so I forgot.

I'm not sure why you're focusing on the "hunt" portion of the conflict with Sephiroth when there's a much more practical point to have deployed Deepground. Shin-Ra was planning a mass invasion of the crater for once Sephiroth's barrier was down.

Because that would be the time Shinra was in tact enough to feasibly deploy and control Deepground. By the time its determined the Northern Crater is Sephiroth's base, the world is under attack by Weapons, Hojo's gone completely rogue in his insanity, and Scarlet and Heidegger are dead. The entire chaos of that situation lends to what I earlier said would happen. Chaos would ensue and Deepground would either presumably go off on their own without further orders or botch the entire process and get defeated in an all out war against Sephiroth.

In this hypothetical scenario where somehow Deepground gets released, if we're at the point where the Northern Crater is revealed to be Sephiroth's base, that means Cloud had to have given Sephiroth the Black Materia at the Reunion, with Rufus bearing witness to the whole situation to obtain this knowledge. That means from that point on, Cloud's gang would also be gunning for the Huge Materia to presumably stop Sephiroth with the planet's help. This means Reeve would still be the mole feeding Cloud's gang the information of what Shinra is up to. So that's one major issue against Shinra right there.

From that chain of events, it would mean Hojo was a witness to the Reunion at the Northern Crater as well, and would then want to aid his son. That means Hojo would sabotage and derail any attempts at thwarting Sephiroth from his goal of godhood. Furthermore, that means Shinra has to now somehow try to fight a 3 front war against Sephiroth, Weapon, and Cloud while trying to maintain order and control over Deepground Soldier. All while dealing with Reeve feeding secrets to Cloud, and Hojo going mad and betraying Shinra.

This is all while they try to figure out how to somehow defeat a SOLDIER who has now become the closest thing to a god and is close to achieving perfection at the core of the planet.

I don't see this ending well.

Avalanche pulled it off.

Are they supposed to be far and away more powerful than the Tsviets? More powerful than the Tsviets + the Restrictors? More powerful than the Tsviets + the Restrictors + the rest of Deepground?

In terms of execution and ability to stop Sephiroth? Hell yeah, 100%.

For one, the fact that they're a smaller group of people only utilizing personal weapons and their own materia, (the same rare materia that was presumably saved from Shinra's attempt to rocket it into Meteor or found along their journey) prevents them from drawing the full attention and wrath of Sephiroth and whatever monsters he controls in that cave. Infiltrating the Northern Crater to the presumed core of the planet is a lot more feasible of an undertaking with just 8 skilled individuals instead of an entire army. Because a massive army would only provoke an equivalent response from what resides in that Northern Cave.

Keep in mind, that the last time the Northern Crater area was explored by Shinra military operatives was around εуλ 0001 and εуλ 0002 during the war against Genesis and his copy army. The Lifestream and monsters that inhabited that space decimated the troops who explored the cave systems and made the Shinra machinery go haywire. The machine weaponry turned on the humans, and low level grunt troopers went mad from the mako and started killing each other. Those subsequent anomalous events happened with just the planet's own natural defense systems and presumably Minerva's will. What do you think would happen with Sephiroth controlling the will of the lifestream in the Northern Crater and being made aware that Shinra was making one last push to obstruct his plans of becoming one with everything?

Considering Sephiroth's powerful will and Jenova abilities, assuming that Deepground soldiers would be able to openly march into the caves there with their weaponry to engage with him is naive. Cloud and the others had to fight their way through a plethora of powerful and rare monsters of undetermined origin and only were allowed to engage with Sephiroth due to his own amusement and desire to "settle things." Shinra and Deepground would not find such a suitable opening or handicap. They would all be killed in all out war, either by the monsters that reside there, or by Sephiroth using the spirit energy to either sabotage/hijack the machinery they use and make it go berserk. His Jenova abilities would confuse and control the grunts, and the mako could drive them mad.

And like @Roger said, with the alternative being the imminent end of the world, what was there to lose by trying? Should they not try just because they may lose? =P

If Weiss and Nero of all people got sent out on a much less problematic occasion (i.e. retrieving Genesis when he was just holed up in a cave without even making all that much ruckus anymore), then it's perfectly within the realm of reason to send them to take on a much greater threat during the most desperate of circumstances.

Considering Weiss and Nero were incognito, and presumably supervised for such a limited scope mission, it's apparent that they're freed only under very careful, and controlled circumstances. What would they have to lose? Well they would stand to lose their limited control over their carefully guarded secrets which could lead to said secrets going berserk and destroying Shinra. Yeah, its the end of the world, but just because its the end of the world, throwing whatever you can and seeing what sticks isn't necessarily the best idea. The Tsviets hold no real loyalty to Shinra at all. They also are mentally unstable and looking to be freed by any means.

Again, the Deepground Soldiers and Tsviets were able to wrestle control from Restrictor within the limited and controlled environment of their imprisonment. You really believe that in the chaos of the surface that they would be incapable of going rogue and turning on Restrictor?

Shinra obviously held some sort of apprehension and hesitance in utilizing Deepground.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Considering Sephiroth's powerful will and Jenova abilities, assuming that Deepground soldiers would be able to openly march into the caves there with their weaponry to engage with him is naive. Cloud and the others had to fight their way through a plethora of powerful and rare monsters of undetermined origin and only were allowed to engage with Sephiroth due to his own amusement and desire to "settle things." Shinra and Deepground would not find such a suitable opening or handicap. They would all be killed in all out war, either by the monsters that reside there, or by Sephiroth using the spirit energy to either sabotage/hijack the machinery they use and make it go berserk. His Jenova abilities would confuse and control the grunts, and the mako could drive them mad.

Lots of good points.

Though I will point out most of the grunts wouldn't have Jenova cells (only a small portion of Deepground were Jenova-type SOLDIERs), and the Tsviets could almost certainly handle anything between them and Sephiroth. But yeah, you're right that the machines could probably be turned against the Deepground army, as well as that Seph may not have been as willing to entertain a skirmish with them as he was with Cloud and co.

Still could have been an interesting throwdown between him and the Tsviets.

I'm very curious whether they could have taken him. Unlike Avalanche, I feel like they would have probably been able to break free of his telekinetic hold without him choosing to humor them in a battle instead of killing them straight away. Nero's abilities should have given them a way out of that.

Of course, making effective use of whatever edges they had would require coordinated use of their abilities and teamwork that the Tsviets may not have had to the extent Avalanche did.