SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Eerie]

Yes they communicated that both heroines had the same screen time (which is wrong: Aerith always had roughly 30minutes more than Tifa each time, and moreover they deleted the chapter where we saw Tifa finding out about Don Corneo’s antics and which was supposed to be the pendant to Aerith walking in the streets yo save Marlene…). The question for Remake was about the LT but in hindsight the answer ws definitely not about the LT. They made sure each girl could shine by themselves, outside their relationship with Cloud, although I’d argue that’s mostly about Remake.

To me quantity doesn’t equal quality and in terms of LT there’s zero doubt to me that I prefer what we got as CT fans (obviously). The two pairs were always going to be compared anyway, no matter what, so I don’t think it changes anything. And it’s true that p3 is going to be a Tifa festival (for which I fully believe Nojima has prepared her for in Rebirth), and that Aerith should have much much less screen time (since you know, she is dead). Quality-wise, given what we had in Rebirth and what’s to come from the OG, I think most people aren’t ready for it - not even CT fans. This is going to be a bit of a schadenfreude for me, regarding all those years in the LTD threads lol.

 

[lyingbanana]

About Aerith appearing less in the next installment...

Makes me think back to the old days of twilight. Back in my younger years when I swooned over it instead of seeing how problematic it all was.
Anyways, I remember in the book New Moon, we dont see Edward most of the book even though he's always a presence in Bella's life, we only had what Bella thought he would say in some situations. And how in the movie they actually showed Edward a bunch of times as aparicions or whatever.
Anyways this changed the vibe completly, it didnt let me miss Edward because he was always there.

I fear the same treatment of Aerith in the next installment, and also fear being labeled a hater for expressing that.

 

[Eerie]

Yeah I think Aerith should be absent from most of the game, and that her scenes may be like Zack’s in Rebirth. We’ll definitely see what she’s up to, but they have so much to cram from the OG story that they can’t really add a full parallel story. From my understanding of the interviews there will be more main story but not enough to add what some people are expecting.

I really hope we won’t see her for a while at the start of the game, but who can predict.

 

[Ryushikaze]

On the subject of Zack and Aerith asides, I agree they should be used sparingly, but I doubt we're not getting any.

However, to that end I think it would be quite fun to parrelelize Zack and Tifa's searches and delay him finding Aerith until Tifa finds Cloud in Mideel, and even then we don't see her.

Chapter 1 I think is all Icicle inn, starting with Gast's Videos, he can and/or can even be our tutorial section playable character like Zack in Rebirth. I think Ch1 can be the whole stretch from Icicle Inn to NC. As such, I think it'd be really cool to make Cloud not party leader from the start or right after it, and reduce him from party member to guest to out of the party entirely over the course of the chapter, concluding in the events of the northern crater. Cloud is lost, Tifa is Comatose, and here we finally get a Zack interlude. he hears a voice, and goes to chase it.

Chapter 2, Junon and Rocket Town. In Junon the Midgar Infantry turn a blind eye to let Tifa escape Palmer still comes and tries to take the ship, but it's the Highwind instead of the Bronco. Party beats his ass, reclaimed the Highwind, and we're off to -

Chapter 3, Wutai, part 1. Wutai is amping up for war against Shinra again, we have to convince them that Sephiroth is the true threat. We don't quite convince them, but we make some progress. Maybe Rufus gets exposed at this juncture, throwing both sides into a kerfluffle and giving the party time to do sidequests, grab a Magnus materia and fight and a WEAPON fight or two. We deal with Corneo here and while he doesn't die, we absolutely beat him senseless.

Chapter 4, Here's where we finally find Cloud in Mideel and Tifa leaves the party. I think this probably ought to be at the end of the chapter. I think most of the main quest here should be catching up with people we've helped. Now would be an excellent time to check in with Leslie, maybe he's made progress finding his love but there's a problem- like her health- we cannot solve for him immediately. A Chocobo racing short quest would also not go amiss here- not to conclude things, but move things forward and give Tifa her time on the bird.

Anyways, right after Tifa meets Comatose Cloud, we finally get out second Zack interlude, where he sees Aerith but we do not. We can even hang a lantern on things by him calling her an angel again.

Chapter 5 is Cid's time as party leader, which basically amounts to the Corel train sequence and rushing right back to Mideel. There's no particular reason for Cid to ride a Chocobo, but we'll figure out some time in case the player wants to.

Chapter 6 is all Lifestream, followed by Zack interlude explaining his escape from ShinRa- recreating the flashback from OG, essentially- to a still off screen Aerith. After his recounting we jump back to the highwind where we finish up with Cloud having explained roughly the same thing to the party.

After that I don't think we should get another interlude until right before the final battle, and then Zack and Aerith doing assists in the fight.

I could go into more detail about how I think they could restructure the plot to streamline existing plot beats while fitting in the new ones.

 

[Skilganon]

Cloud acknowledges that he has to leave Aerith behind at the end of Rebirth, so I don't think she'll be showing up as a ghost.

 

[Eerie]

Yeah I think Cloud and Aerith will only "meet" at the end like in the OG when she saved him with her hand. He's going to see her ala AC there.

 

[Maidenofwar]

I think Aerith and Zack might have the same amount of time more or less (as each other), probably a medium amount of time. Possibly there will be screen time of Aerith "playing chess" with Sephiroth and maybe some focus on other party members apart from Cloud missing Aerith. Any who want Aerith to appear a seriously minimal amount might not be happy but it doesn't mean those expecting her to have the lion's share will get everything they want either.

Well what do I know. I might be wrong, in either respects.

I'm glad Tifa won that award, good for her. Rebirth won quite a few awards with Famitsu and has garnered many accolades in the last year and so since it's release. It has done better and better as time went on it seems. Congrats to the dev team, I am so happy for them and hope it is giving them much inspiration and encouragement for part 3.

Of course as Aerith fan, I fully own to being, I don't want to see too little of her, to the point she barely exists, but if I could use her every battle in NG+ through some Chadley wizardry or something it might satisfy an itch. I never did find a character in battle I preferred. Though I'm thinking if they kept Cait Sith roughly the same but added some more magic/heals/support he might be my reason to main part 3. Or some ghost synergy where Yuffie gets Arcane/ATB Ward to exploit with Doppelganger/Brumal Form or something (I'd miss Healing Wind but they could give Yuffie Clear Tranquil) . In the end Aerith, Cait, Yuffie, Red ended up suiting me best at the time though everyone is definitely great and powerful too. Just playstyle differences. I do think Cloud's aerial combat is fun in Rebirth though. I like Tifa's Reverse Gale too.

I hope people are enjoying the Odin event in EC, and Tifa, also the new EC art, I saw Tifa had more EC art than I realised. It's nice to see her getting focus. The Odin event is just neat in general.

 

[Eerie]

I personally think Zack and Aerith are going to be together rather sooner than later; and we'll see them onscreen at least as much as we saw Zack in Rebirth. I don't know if you remember but I told you way before Remake that hopefully they'll show what Aerith is up to in the LS and I think they're going to do just that. So we're going to see her reunite with Zack, but not only as we'll see how she works to save the Planet. However my personal wish is to not see that so soon so that her death does sink in. I also think the main story is going to be focused on Cloud and Tifa, because Tifa has a phenomenal role to come in p3.

 

[Ryushikaze]

I personally think Zack and Aerith are going to be together rather sooner than later; and we'll see them onscreen at least as much as we saw Zack in Rebirth. I don't know if you remember but I told you way before Remake that hopefully they'll show what Aerith is up to in the LS and I think they're going to do just that. So we're going to see her reunite with Zack, but not only as we'll see how she works to save the Planet. However my personal wish is to not see that so soon so that her death does sink in. I also think the main story is going to be focused on Cloud and Tifa, because Tifa has a phenomenal role to come in p3.

I could easily see their reunion coming pretty quick and then just not doing much of anything with them for awhile, I just thought it might be interesting to parralelize Tifa's search for Cloud and Zack's search for Aerith. It might help drive home the "finally reuniting for real after all this time" vibe the LSS tries to end with.

 

[Eerie]

I could easily see their reunion coming pretty quick and then just not doing much of anything with them for awhile, I just thought it might be interesting to parralelize Tifa's search for Cloud and Zack's search for Aerith. It might help drive home the "finally reuniting for real after all this time" vibe the LSS tries to end with.

That's an interesting idea, I could see it work right after the LSS too, but I don't think Zack is going to move from that church - he's literally like "ok, I'll be waiting now" because he has no other choice but to wait (he's literally tried all the options he had to no avail). I think it's Aerith who will come to him because she will get guided to that place - you know how I say that it's her promised land, so that's why to me she and Zack will meet there. but to put it after the LSS might effectively be the best place.

 

[Ryushikaze]

That's an interesting idea, I could see it work right after the LSS too, but I don't think Zack is going to move from that church - he's literally like "ok, I'll be waiting now" because he has no other choice but to wait (he's literally tried all the options he had to no avail). I think it's Aerith who will come to him because she will get guided to that place - you know how I say that it's her promised land, so that's why to me she and Zack will meet there. but to put it after the LSS might effectively be the best place.

I wasn't even thinking of Zack leaving the church. I was thinking we'd see like a scene of him hearing Aerith and runs outside briefly, then comes right back to the church in the next interlude where we see him see her (matching up with Tifa finding Cloud in mideel) and their next interlude where we actually see Aerith at all would be post lifestream.

 

[Skilganon]

It would be cool if Zack and Cloud realize how Zack died at the same time. I've entertained the idea of parallel life stream scenes for Zack and Cloud. But that would probably complicate things.

We don't know how SE is going to incorporate the alternate worlds into the various reveals happening in part 3. If it just turns out "it's all an illusion", it's going to look like a bunch of mystery-box BS.

While we will never know for sure, I think if SE had not included a bunch of meta-textual elements (Whispers, fighting fate, heavy-handed foreshadowing) into the Remake series and kept the story more-or-less the same, people would STILL wonder if Aerith is going to die, simply because it's a remake.

 

[Ryushikaze]

My best guess is that post LSS, we'll get Cloud explaining how he got from Nibelheim to Midgar, going into a flashback, which leads into a Zack Interlude where he's been explaining the same thing to Aerith.

 

[Eerie]

We don't know how SE is going to incorporate the alternate worlds

But Sephiroth already explained it? That plus put in context the talk in Cosmo Canyon between the NPCs, I don’t think you’ll get anything clearer. It’s already quite clear that those aren’t alternate worlds as fans usually conceptualise them.

 

[Lex]

Based on what's said in game and the Zack "paths" it seems super clear to me that it's an "infinite universes" thing, where every possibility is played out within the lifestream based on character's individual choices. Every action has a branching path - but it's all just happening within the Lifestream (everything but our main (alive) characters).

Similar to how Cloud's consciousness was summoned away at the end of the OG to fight Sephiroth... it doesn't necessarily cheapen the things that happen there or make them meaningless, but it's not the material world. That's my take.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Yeah, we've already been spoiled on the reveal in the framing story for Ever Crisis. The planet is dreaming up infinite hypotheticals and watching them play out, but the material world is distinct from all of them.

 

[Skilganon]

Sephiroth's explanation and the description from the woman in Cosmo Canyon are at odds.

Sephiroth states that "When the rules of Fate are breached, new worlds are born." This makes it look like a Marvel-style multiverse is going on.

The woman in Cosmo Canyon talks about her loved one's spirit being "Stuck between Our world and the lifestream". Which suggests that the alternate worlds are a form of afterlife.

This has lead to much theorizing and acrimony on social media. We have to wait for part 3 to give any definitive answer to this, though I'm completely open to the idea that the devs have no idea and are flying by the seat of their pants.

 

[Eerie]

Sephiroth states that those worlds are hidden in the meanders of the LS, this is exactly what the woman and Aerith says: those worlds are in between life and death.

 

[Skilganon]

I play in English, so that difference may be a result of the localization.

 

[Xannis]

Sephiroth's explanation and the description from the woman in Cosmo Canyon are at odds.

Sephiroth states that "When the rules of Fate are breached, new worlds are born." This makes it look like a Marvel-style multiverse is going on.

The woman in Cosmo Canyon talks about her loved one's spirit being "Stuck between Our world and the lifestream". Which suggests that the alternate worlds are a form of afterlife.

This has lead to much theorizing and acrimony on social media. We have to wait for part 3 to give any definitive answer to this, though I'm completely open to the idea that the devs have no idea and are flying by the seat of their pants.

I'd buy the afterlife thing except multiple people who aren't dead in the playable sections are present in them. The only explanation that makes any kind of sense to me when looking at the LS Sequences is that Sephiroth is basically behind the curtain so to speak. It's a little fuzzy but I think OG established that Sephiroth in his comatose state in the Northern Crater learned / was able to manipulate the Lifestream directly. They never clarified what that meant in OG but they could be angling for something like you find out all this Alt World stuff is Seph just trying to derail Zack and Aerith from meeting up and he's able to project whatever he wants into those sequences (like having Cloud and Marlene Present).

Ugh I really wish they had just left well enough alone with all this alternate whatever crap. I don't find it particularly interesting personally and I also have yet to consume media that deals with alternate timelines and/or time travel / fate switching that doesn't trip over itself somewhere with a gaping plot hole.

 

[Eerie]

except multiple people who aren't dead in the playable sections are present in them

You realise that there is no time in the Lifestream, and past, present and future memories are juggled together?

Anyway I ought to make a thread soon about well, Aerith and the multiple worlds.

 

[Ryushikaze]

People also don't have to be dead to appear in dreams. The planet can work the same way.

 

[Skilganon]

I've seen some posts suggesting that the reason Elmyra and Marlene show up in the alternate world is that they are dreaming in the real world. Though there is no evidence to back this up.

There's too many inconsistencies like this to devise any consistent theory, which is why I am reluctant to make any hard predictions for part three. Anything could happen.

 

[Eerie]

I disagree, I think given the established lore of FFVII, it’s not that hard to create a solid theory. I’ll try to post over this weekend about what happens exactly IMHO.

 

[null]

To me, what’s happening with the Lifestream doesn’t feel like standard lore, i.e. it’s not primarily there to establish and reinforce the fictional world. Lore explains why things are the way they are, what can and can’t be done, and creates a sense of depth and immersion. Lore is about the setting. It grounds the story.

But this is more like Instrumentality in Evangelion, or PATHS in Attack on Titan, a narrative device that lets the writers break the rules of storytelling. It allows them to ignore time and space, and create scenes and accomplish things that shouldn’t be possible. There’s a lore aspect to it such that our suspension of disbelief is protected - they’re not trying to insult our intelligence - but it’s mainly in service of narrative freedom rather than grounding the story. And the more the writers explain exactly how it works, the less freedom they have to wield it.

My opinion is that the primary function of the Lifestream mechanics is to allow Sephiroth, Aerith and Zack to be involved in the story when they otherwise shouldn’t be onscreen. Driving anticipation for part 3 is a secondary goal. Revealing the particulars to everyone’s satisfaction isn’t necessarily the highest priority; I only say that because these sorts of devices rarely get fully explained. However, if we do get a lore dump so spectacular the Dwemer of Elder Scrolls blush through their disappeared beards, I would be thrilled.

And of course I look forward to the theories. The fans usually have more interesting ideas anyway (definitely was the case before Rebirth came out).