Retconning in the Compilation

[Strangelove]

It gets said a lot that the Compilation retcons stuff from FFVII, but either I don't pay enough attention or just don't remember FFVII that well, because I can't really think of many examples So I was wondering if others could point some out.

By retcon, I mean specifically things that have been changed ("Sephiroth jumps into the mako reactor") rather than stuff that wasn't seen in the original game but can still happen without changing anything seen in the original ("Genesis was in at Nibelheim").

AC:
- Tseng and Rufus surviving (although those could fall under 'plot twist')

BC:
- Sephiroth jumps (debatable? since CC goes back more or less to the original version)

CC:
?

DC:
?

LO:
- Sephiroth jumps
- Tifa's father dies outside of the reactor, not inside
- Tifa wakes up and speaks with Cloud

 

[Channy]

When Cloud rescues Tifa in LO, he picks her up, carries her off to the side and they have a minor conversation. "You came when I was in a pinch" etc... Would that count?

 

[Strangelove]

I wasn't counting LO, because it was too easy But might as well.

 

[Shademp]

Maybe you can specify that CC retconned both BC and LO, thus re-retconning FFVII.

You may know that FFVII Citadel did a list of retcons.
http://www.ff7citadel.com/compilation/comp_retcon.shtml

 

[Masamune]

Tseng never died in the first place. Neither did Rufus. We watched Rufus engulfed in an explosion, but we never see them put the final nail in the coffin, so to speak.

It's even more ironic that the Compilation contradicts the Compilation.

* Red XIII says the Lifestream changed course post-FFVII (Case of...Barret?) but in DoC the reactors are still functional.

 

[Strangelove]

I was counting 'seemed to have died, but turned out to be alive' as a plot twist. Elena's line in Japanese, IIRC, can still be taken as Tseng being killed.

I didn't know there was already a list Although I disagree with some of their points, like CC's contradictions:

* Jenova Project G, which was run by Dr. Hollander and was responsible for the creation of Angeal and Genesis. (Doesn't really contradict anything, does it? It's just a project we never knew about before.)
* The existence of the Goddess of the Planet. (Again, what's contradicted?)

 

[Masamune]

Yeah, but since he was attacked in the Temple of the Ancients, he must have got away for Elena to know about it in the first place. I'd say you're right, and it's a plot twist at best. Definitely not a retcon.

 

[Dawnbreaker]

I never thought Tseng was ever killed even in the original game, so I can certainly see that being altered slightly but I agree it's no retcon.

Rufus being alive isn't either--it's just pathetic writing. IMO, if you someone is blown up chances are they're dead. Dead-dead. But there's still a techincality so they can get away with that.

Sephiroth jumping is a definite retcon, unless you're gonna count that Cloud was so messed in the head he even can't remember what happened. But otherwise, totally, yeah. I just happen to like LO verison because it just makes more sense.

Tifa's father being out or in the Reactor is kind funny, because I never even realized that discrepancy though it's entirely true. Definite retcon.

 

[Strangelove]

Yeah, but since he was attacked in the Temple of the Ancients, he must have got away for Elena to know about it in the first place. I'd say you're right, and it's a plot twist at best. Definitely not a retcon.

I always assumed that Elena/other Turks went to the temple and got him, but the temple turns into the Black Materia after you last see him, doesn't it. I forgot that. So he must have gotten away, or the Turks came for him before you were finished in the temple.

Although I don't mind including them, I wasn't considering stuff from LO or Maiden of the Planet as major retcons since technically they aren't credited as one of the five parts of the Compilation (1: BC, 2: AC, 3: DC, 4: CC, 5: On the Way to a Smile).

 

[Makoeyes987]

Red XIII says the Lifestream changed course post-FFVII (Case of...Barret?) but in DoC the reactors are still functional.

The reactors only start working again because Omega starts to use them to suck up the lifestream, and I'm sure Omega could change the course lifestream in order to drain the planet of life.

DG was using the other topside reactors to amplify Mako Reactor 0, which Red XIII wouldn't even know about to even deduce that it wouldn't work.

 

[Masamune]

If the Lifestream is running on a different course, then the reactors can't do jack. And Omega wasn't even alive at that point. That was the whole point of taking the reactors offline, to stop his ass from appearing.

 

[Dawnbreaker]

What's the fun of that?

I think the whole Genesis bit in the Reactor where Sephy goes mad might also be sort of retcon. Maybe not entirely, but certainly something as it wasn't ever even hinted at prior.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Genesis being present at Nibelheim was a retcon.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Technically, it's an interpolation to the timeline, rather than an out an out retcon, but yes, it does change the nature of the scene as we understood it, but does not actually change anything we were in any position to know originally.

Rufus's survival is a similar instance of not exactly a retcon, but which changes previously accepted understanding.

 

[Makoeyes987]

If the Lifestream is running on a different course, then the reactors can't do jack. And Omega wasn't even alive at that point. That was the whole point of taking the reactors offline, to stop his ass from appearing.

I'm pretty sure when Omega emerged the reactors finally started sucking up mako and activating. Not before.

And the reason Vincent and the others were to stop the reactors was because DG were hooking all the reactors to Reactor 0 main frame which had the super saturated mako that would be used to invoke Omega with the Protomateria. They didn't start sucking until Omega appeared.

Reeve: Omega is being revived deep beneath Midgar in Mako Reactor 0.
Reeve: To increase the output of Reactor 0, all the other reactors have been
tied into its mainframe. Our objective is to destroy 1 through 8 and
slow the reanimation process.

It's pretty conceivable that Omega would be able to suck up the lifestream from the reactors, regardless of its changed course. Since it pretty much is the lifestream.

 

[Masamune]

You're right about the reactors. They didn't begin siphoning until Omega took shape.

I still think it was an oversight when they wrote CoB, because it was convenient for Omega to use the reactors already plugged into the Lifestream.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I guess it is a bit confusing at first glance when you go into DC after paying attention and reading the Case of Barret plot points. But yeah, at least there's some explanation and shit

 

[Strangelove]

On the subject of DC

Hojo talks about seeing Vincent transform into Chaos, right? But can you get Chaos before disk 3? The fight with Hojo is end of disk 2, so if you can't get the Limit Break before then, he shouldn't be able to transform into it for Hojo's battle.

This is more of a gamplay thing, but still

 

[Makoeyes987]

That's a glaring inconsistency of DC right there. Ping pong.

 

[Shademp]

Another retcon (someone will have to help with the specifics)

In the Before Crisis chapter with Zack, when two other Soldier members die after being experimented on by AVALANCHE, he is equipped with the Buster Sword. However Crisis Core's continuity places this event before the Buster Sword was handed over to Zack. So in this retcon Zack should have his old sword during that chapter.

Edit: My apologies for this mistake. Shouldn't have gone directly off my obsolete memory.

Edit edit: Seriously, this mistake is going to haunt me all night. *goes off on an FFVIIAC-esque adventure in search for forgiveness*

 

[Tetsujin]

No, the Before Crisis stuff happens after Modeoheim. There is a flashback that references those two fallen SOLDIERs, and it only appears after you finished the Modeoheim chapter.

 

[Makoeyes987]

C'mon Shademp, there's a Compilation of FFVII timeline on the frontpage. You should know this.

 

[Tetsujin]

Which I went through completely today at work, when there was nothing else to do.

 

[pESCAbAdA]

Just to note a couple of posts back, it's totally possible to get Chaos on Disk 2 as I've done it before. I restarted FF7 again after playing Dirge and wanted to have Vincent transform into Chaos during the Hojo battle so that it would match up with what Hojo says in Dirge (and because I'm weird like that). It's really simple, you just have to visit Lucrecia's Cave as soon as you get the sub and then wait a while. I spent a looooooot of time levelling up materia after visiting the cave the first time because I'm trying to get a few sets each of all the master materia and when I went back to the cave, Chaos and the Death Penalty were there. So, there's not really any inconsistency there if you're patient/have too much time on your hands and just sit for hours trying to get three mastered versions of Knights of the Round.

 

[Edley]

After DeepGround and Genesis, I can't really look at Shinra the same way as I did during VII, make of that what you will. And then there's making Zack a main in CC which kind of makes Tifa and Aerith look irresponsible for not at least mentioning him to Cloud during his troubles. Maybe he wouldn't have been so mixed up? But I guess it's in favor of a more intresting plot. Don't know if that's retconning, but it does change the way that I look at the characters when I replay the original.