Deepground questions

Roger

Roger

He/him
AKA
Minato
Makoeyes987 said:
Because the likes of her and Cloud are the only ones Sephiroth would ever deign to acknowledge with a fight and not just outright kill.

Sephiroth had absolutely no reason whatsoever to fight Cloud and the others. He chose to because he wanted to give them the fight they so wanted and beat them in battle.

But Sephiroth could have just used his telekinesis to rocket them away or just force-choke em. He literally let them go, just to humor them with a fight. Because Sephiroth likes to fuck around.

We see what Sephiroth does when he's serious or not fucking around. Given the powers at his disposal and the fact he had the Lifestream and monsters of the Northern Crater at his disposal, there's no reason to believe he'd just sit there and let the Tsviets get a shot at fighting him.

He'd blow them up.
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Holding back Holy was hampering Sephiroth's abilities. If Jenova Complete had finished them off, that'd have been fine. fighting them was plan B.

And that's not a reason for Shinra to not send them, if the end of the world was sufficient reason to at assemble a team and send the Gelnika (which didn't get there, and thus failed to prove to Shinra that in lieu of Weapons their mission would've been doomed anyway).
 
Makoeyes987

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
Even with holding back Holy, Sephiroth's telekinesis was able to completely subdue Cloud and the others.

Sephiroth heard them crying out and then let them go in order to humor himself and fight them out right. The fact Sephiroth held back Holy doesn't change he literally had them in his hold and Red XIII even cried out it was as if they were being torn apart. So no, that's... That's not a real factor.

And hey. If Shinra wanted to give more SOLDIERs to feed to Sephiroth so he can send them back to the Planet, that's their right. :mon:

Honestly Shinra tried and probably would have had things not turned out the way they did. They thought blowing Meteor out of the sky would fix the problem, but lol nope.
 
C

Clement Rage

Pro Adventurer
Yuffie doesn't show anything suggesting she had Azul covered.
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No, but she does show herself to be a very clever fighter underneath the ditziness, anticipating Rosso's dodge and using that blinding trick, which I would imagine is very effective against someone with Mako supersenses. The issue with fighting Azul is hurting him, which you can do using materia, and I think Yuffie is fast enough that he'd have a lot of trouble hitting her.

Like you said, she gets to Deepground. nevertheless everyone says Vincent will have to be the one to take on the Tsviets, including Yuffie and her small mountain of Materia. So why is the likes of her a better fit against the Weapons and the assasult on the Northern Cave then anyone and everyone in Deepground either individually or combined?
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She's not.

Deepground would have been suitable to assault the crater, but only once the barrier is down, by which point everyone important enough to give the order is dead and they're in the middle of a rebellion. They'd take a lot of casualties, being so weak to magic, but might even have won out.

Re the Weapons, DGs is almost entirely physical attacks, which we are shown are basically ineffective, even with the entire Junon garrison unloading on them. Yuffie, alone, isn't more effective than DG. Yuffie with KOTR, though... You need that kind of thing (or Sister Ray) to deal enough damage to a Weapon, we actually see that a quite high level party is not enough to take Diamond, and or even hold its attention.

Vincent has immunity to darkness (which Shelke may know about), and has already defeated Shelke and Azul. Yuffie actually is ready to help against Nero and Weiss, but lacks the immunity to darkness, so it doesn't work out.
 
Roger

Roger

He/him
AKA
Minato
Clement Rage said:
No, but she does show herself to be a very clever fighter underneath the ditziness, anticipating Rosso's dodge and using that blinding trick, which I would imagine is very effective against someone with Mako supersenses. The issue with fighting Azul is hurting him, which you can do using materia, and I think Yuffie is fast enough that he'd have a lot of trouble hitting her.



She's not.

Deepground would have been suitable to assault the crater, but only once the barrier is down, by which point everyone important enough to give the order is dead and they're in the middle of a rebellion. They'd take a lot of casualties, being so weak to magic, but might even have won out.

Re the Weapons, DGs is almost entirely physical attacks, which we are shown are basically ineffective, even with the entire Junon garrison unloading on them. Yuffie, alone, isn't more effective than DG. Yuffie with KOTR, though... You need that kind of thing (or Sister Ray) to deal enough damage to a Weapon, we actually see that a quite high level party is not enough to take Diamond, and or even hold its attention.

Vincent has immunity to darkness (which Shelke may know about), and has already defeated Shelke and Azul. Yuffie actually is ready to help against Nero and Weiss, but lacks the immunity to darkness, so it doesn't work out.
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The fact that Yuffie has the bulk of the Materia after FFVII, but it doesn't matter much in regards to her effectiveness in AC or DoC makes me feel their importance storywise is heavily overemphasised here. Regardless, the Sunken Gelnika tells us that bringing down the barrier isn't something that Shinra was waiting for before having their troops at least on the Northern Continent. Which just makes me feel that Scarlet's proven knowledge of Deepground is bad plotpoint to put out there. Makes them look not THAT desperate yet, or THAT at their wits end. Still kinda hoping Sephiroth can be reasoned with before they quite give it everything they have. As such to me, it's better that Deepground just does not exist at all.
 
C

Clement Rage

Pro Adventurer
After agreeing with Cid, Cloud fell in thought.

“Hey, Yuffie. How about this? We’ll give you all the materia.”

“Alright!”

“But I keep it in safe custody.”

“Er— Are you trying to trick a child here! ”

Thinking she was being made a fool, she stood up tall in protest.

“You got it all wrong. Most of our materia are used for battle right? It really won’t be of much use for Wutai. So we’ll just share the ones that will be of use in healing and I’ll keep the rest. I think I’m the one that’s the most experienced when it comes to dangerous materia.”

[...]

“Then lets do this. You return to Wutai but if you feel uneasy without materia then contact me. We’ll think about it again then.”

Cloud was speaking in a gentle tone but in the end, his decision to keep the materia was clear to Yuffie.
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She doesn't actually have it, she nominally owns it, but it's in the care of Cloud. Re Materia's story effectiveness, Kadaj's one summon tied up the entire party and wrecked half of Edge.

We don't know where the sunken Gelnika was going with its cargo, the crater has no runways for it to land on. It was developing weapons, but could still be doing field tests somewhere else. We never see any Shinra military presence on the North Continent before the barrier falls, except Elena's cordon before it goes up.

Deploying DG before they have any ability to be useful is counterproductive, they just do random slaughters, risk a rebellion against Shinra by revealing all their human experimentation to the public, and take useless casualties from cold and glacier monsters.
 
Jairus

Jairus

Author of FFVII: Lifestream & FFVII: Reflections
Since this is a discussion about Deepground, I was wondering what ever happened to Argento? You never see her in Dirge outside of Japan's online mode, so is she still alive post-DoC? It's just something I've always wondered about this game but have never been able to find answer for.
 
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