SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[LunarTarotGirl]

We shouldn't need to read an Ultimania to find out that a line about a singular person was actually about "loved ones in general". If that was the purpose of the line, that should have been true from the start. The rejected line about "the other side of the mountain" actually serves this purpose better, like, infinitely better. It's also a metaphor.

It's about Aerith. Who is a loved one. Who died. Literally days ago. Again I argue it would be really weird if they didn't think of her. Especially when the Promised Land has been related with the Cetra the whole game. Especially when she's the one with powers to manipulate the Lifestream. Especially when her theme is playing to not think of her.

But we also have to understand that meeting Aerith is the answer to what is the Promised Land. It's not just put there for no reason. It's a symbol of hope that there is an opportunity in death to reunite with those who have died. Therefore death isn't the end. I don't think we needed an Ultimania to understand this.

Sure people can read into it however they will.

But the idea isn't a mystery, it's story progression it makes sense with the themes of the game. It's not there because they needed more LTD. The scene switching to Tifa is because Tifa is the living person who is now by Cloud's side. It's a beautiful scene. And even my CA self never thought Tifa was just inviting herself to Cloud's love affair. Because the scene is just about so much more than "which girl guy pick?"and thinking that it's about a girl getting friend zoned is a weird take and does a disservice to the themes built in the story.

And we can agree on this even if we think that CA is romantic or not that the devs wouldn't be using a scene like that to screw over Tifa and show how she's forever alone because that's just way more shallow of a read than the art unfolding on the screen I'm sorry. I don't think if people think that way it's necessarily the fault of the devs trying to create a beautiful scene to connect the themes of their story. I don't think we should change art in general because it may not be understood but that's me.

Also Tifa's main concern is the exact same. She's saying the same thing. She too wants to see Aerith. If Cid was there hanging next to them, I bet he too would be thinking of Aerith. The party in the moment is mourning Aerith who in AC is described as super loved and important. This isn't strange. I don't see how this is anything of a problem or mystery that two characters wish to see another character that died in front of them days prior. And maybe you like that other scene more it's also a nice scene.
But I think this one is fine as is personally. And other scenes exist that show romance because that's what they're about. While this is about hope beyond death.

And as a CA I don't blame people for seeing romance in the story nor do I have any issues with wavering characters or multiple love interests either. But we should also wonder of the purpose of scenes in terms of the intentions of creators. How they connect in terms of themes etc. And many takes on this scene really are weird and go against those themes and do a disservice to it sadly.

But again, I don't think that's because of the devs fault. They were just creating. I don't think they expected any of this to happen and I'm again seeing their intentions now in the moment.

 

[Skilganon]

And we can agree on this even if we think that CA is romantic or not that the devs wouldn't be using a scene like that to screw over Tifa and show how she's forever alone because that's just way more shallow of a read than the art unfolding on the screen I'm sorry. I don't think if people think that way it's necessarily the fault of the devs trying to create a beautiful scene to connect the themes of their story. I don't think we should change art in general because it may not be understood but that's me.

Maybe it's because I'm very cynical, but I find the reasoning of "Do you think the devs would screw over Tifa" to be a bit weak. Because as we've already discussed, the portrayal of Cloud and Tifa's relationship in AC is pretty terrible.

After AC released, Nomura pushed back in an interview where it was suggested that the Cloud and Tifa relationship felt depressing, said "If you look closer, you'll see they actually have a good relationship". Nomura thought the scenes in AC were enough. One shouldn't have to look closer.

This is why I don't have faith in Nomura as a story-teller.

Overall, what the devs choose to focus on is strange given what we've been told about the romance. We are told Cloud was happy with Tifa, we don't see this. Maybe it's in short stories, but the moving image is vastly more salient. We only ever see Cloud and Tifa together at their lowest point, all while Aerith is remembered with fondness, always accompanied by light, flowers, showers of healing rain. It's been 27 years and we've never actually seen Cloud and Tifa happy and in a relationship in a video game or movie. If all you've seen was AC, you would have no inkling that the lifestream scene even happened or that Cloud had a crush on Tifa his whole life (what the OG and CC tell us). The short story collection that filled in critical moments before AC came out three years after the US release of AC.

So yeah, I wouldn't put it past the devs to unwittingly make characters look bad.

I also don't think making these relationships clear would necessarily mean dumbing down the art. I think the CT relationship in Remake and Rebirth is complex, nuanced, artistically portrayed, all while giving critical information about how these characters relate to each other.

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

Maybe it's because I'm very cynical, but I find the reasoning of "Do you think the devs would screw over Tifa" to be a bit weak. Because as we've already discussed, the portrayal of Cloud and Tifa's relationship in AC is pretty terrible.

After AC released, Nomura pushed back in an interview where it was suggested that the Cloud and Tifa relationship felt depressing, said "If you look closer, you'll see they actually have a good relationship". Nomura thought the scenes in AC were enough. One shouldn't have to look closer.

This is why I don't have faith in Nomura as a story-teller.

Overall, what the devs choose to focus on is strange given what we've been told about the romance. We are told Cloud was happy with Tifa, we don't see this. Maybe it's in short stories, but the moving image is vastly more salient. We only ever see Cloud and Tifa together at their lowest point, all while Aerith is remembered with fondness, always accompanied by light, flowers, showers of healing rain. It's been 27 years and we've never actually seen Cloud and Tifa happy and in a relationship in a video game or movie. If all you've seen was AC, you would have no inkling that the lifestream scene even happened or that Cloud had a crush on Tifa his whole life (what the OG and CC tell us). The short story collection that filled in critical moments before AC came out three years after the US release of AC.

So yeah, I wouldn't put it past the devs to unwittingly make characters look bad.

I guess I'm the wrong person to tell this to because as a CA I wasn't convinced I cared much about Tifa until Advent Children.
And it wasn't because I pitied her.
In fact let's pretend Advent Children never happened. I probably wouldn't be caring about CT at all honestly. Because to me seeing them go through stuff together that's what I saw as "wow the devs are getting serious let me pay attention." I've said it before but Tifa telling Cloud to stop running is when I changed my opinion on her. And to this day if you ask me what scene convinced me to look twice at CT it's that scene. Not the promise scene. Not the Lifestream scene. That one. If that scene didn't exist I likely wouldn't be having this conversation. And I think it's because of how hard it hits. Someone that loves you doesn't sit there and watch you wallow. They snap you out of it. And what does he do after this scene? He stops running. He literally starts driving he starts facing what he needs to. That's not depressing. That's a good partner. That's a pretty realistic portrayal of two people trying to get by after an almost Apocalypse. Together. And it's beautiful. Things don't need to be sparkly and shiny to be beautiful and have deep meaning. And that's what I like about what the devs did with AC even though yes they were amateurs at the time in the movie department. But I love the vision. And the message.
I never saw it as a bad relationship or anything. A realistic one maybe. And I find the devs were pretty bold to show the not so pretty side of a relationship. I wish more media did that actually. Yes as a CA I love the flowery stuff too. I understand why people do. But going through trials and overcoming them together is also a part of building relationships and I like seeing that.

So maybe that's my bias. I understand my view is not what others see. I understand wanting more sunshine so to speak in a dreary looking movie. I understand that for other people the starry stuff with the promise and Under The Highwind is what they like and want more of. I get it.

But I also think the devs put a lot of love into their representations. I don't think they were nor ever are trying to portray their main characters in bad light. I think it's we as fans that do that.