SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[LunarTarotGirl]

The devs haven't done nearly enough to dissuade people of this. It's believed by a large number of people who are shipping-neutral. And like @LunarTarotGirl said, if the dream date has the intention you claim, then it largely back fired. I've said previously that the whole dream date section should have simply been cut from the game. The events of Advent Children don't really help this case either.

Again, I don't really have issues with Cloud actually being in a love triangle, I just don't want Tifa to look like a doormat.

I wasn't talking about the dream date in the context of CT. But of the devs not actually answering much about CA while letting CA fans have room to hope for the future.

CT is its own thing. The dream date is not about CT but about CA specifically. And Z is in the background in that church and his role now is brought into question.

I think the dream date is a beautiful scene personally.

But...

My issue with the dream date is specifically it adds an element of Aerith not knowing what kind of like she feels for Cloud. This is something that goes against what she has said this entire 27 years including Lifestream White.

Meaning they're definitely going to need to explain this adequately. So instead of clarifying what was already there all along we now ALSO need to go into her actual feelings for both Cloud and Zack in terms of why did she say she liked Cloud now if it's not true. As I have pointed out she says she at first saw Zack in Cloud but now is interested in him. And now they're going back on that. Making her seem pretty confident in her feelings in the gondola date, then confused in the dream date. Which.. okay ?? Why do it that way? They also need to resolve the love triangle they just set up with Zack by having him hear from Marlene Aerith loves Cloud now.

Which is fine. But with such a short amount of time explaining that adequately is going to be tough plus having a moment where Aerith realizes this PLUS establishing her relationship with Zack after not actually showing it the entire trilogy and most of the compilation. It's just a lot. It's complex and they could have just clarified what was already there from before not added to it.

Also as I said it doesn't actually give concrete answers for CA.

As a farewell scene it's very beautiful and sweet.

As story set up it basically gives more questions than answers and makes things more confusing.

CT has had development since ACC and since Remake has added a lot more. ZA has not. ZA has been hidden in the background and is denied by Aerith herself currently with her admitting she's searching for Cloud, she likes Cloud but wonders what kind of like etc. And Zack currently has no idea what is happening. Meaning a lot more needs to happen to make everything that leads to their resolution feel earned.

So basically we'll see.

Also I don't think it needs to be said but I'm not anti ZA. I would be very happy with a ZA reunion. But I do have my gripes on how it's been handled so far.

 

[lyingbanana]

Think about it, but to this day, talking about the most important relationship in game is prohibited in most spaces. You cannot talk about CT in reddit, or in forums - or it's actually really hard to. And I'm not talking about shipping posts, but anything that is related to them is just forbidden talk mostly on the net outside of shipping spaces. That's how bad it is. And I really do think it's unfair. So "wah but CAs will be sad?" yeah I'm sorry but I only care about my CA friends, the rest, not so much.

This is one of my biggest gripes with the general fandom, you cant even say that Cloud wanted to be noticed by Tifa as his reason to wanting to join Soldier (and we are TOLD in the OG and in 2,000 Gil to become a hero) without people going "he wanted to be noticed by everyone or he wanted to be like Sephiroth". Which yes to the latter and mistranslation of the former.

It usually turns into a love triangle barrage of opinions when its established lore.

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

It usually turns into a love triangle barrage of opinions when its established lore.

This is something unfortunately inescapable no matter what team you're on.

Online people aren't really nice to eachother in shipping spaces and just dismiss what the opposite is saying without looking further. Outside shipping spaces almost everyone isn't nice to shippers in general and will act like everything we say is stupid or we're hung up on romance and not appreciating the game.
We can't win. And it sucks.

But I will say it right now: If people think ReTrilogy is going to somehow solve any of that they're going to be disappointed.

What is actually going to solve that is realizing that this tearing eachother down without listening thing is not because of what is actually in the story but our own biases.


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But to summarize my point before it gets lost because a lot is being said:

Fundamentally, you shouldn't need dev statements or lines from an Ultimania to understand character relationships within a game's story. But the whole reason people agonize over these things is because the material itself is so wishy-washy on these subjects.

The devs are trying to solve things in the story but my point all this time is the story itself since OG wasn't even really that bad. It was fine. It just needed some clarification. What has made this a convoluted mess is the million additions after the fact years apart. It has made for a less cohesive story. The compilation on its own was also really not terrible and it wasn't the devs TRYING to ruin things or make characters look bad. But adding things years after the fact has the unfortunate side effect of making things more convoluted.

And now in Rebirth the devs need to tie up everything or they're going to alienate a lot of people on either side if they don't finish this the way either side expects. There is a lot of pressure on them to get this right. And they're clearly trying to. I don't blame them because they're definitely clarifying a lot of things that needed clarification before.

But they're doing this also while adding more stuff and trying to keep people guessing. Because they have to keep some element of mystery. They have to make sure people talk about the games in between release. And seriously guys, we know they're not going to just make either CTs or CAs angry so that they don't want to buy pt 3 either. It's a company they want to keep their audience. So they have to make sure in the meantime we, the different factions of their audience are relatively happy.

So in the meantime there's this balancing act going on of fan expectations and the story they wish to create.

So basically the main problem is they kept adding stuff to the story in a very spread out but not cohesive way. And now they have to clarify what they added...by adding more stuff.

Which isn't exactly clarifying but more confusing. It doesn't help. THAT here is why we're all upset and fighting. THIS is the reason the devs are in this situation: Every time they try to clarify something they add something that also needs clarification but they don't actually clarify it in the moment because it's supposed to be answered later.

As I said using OG as a base and clarifying those not so clear plot points, or even AC as a base would have been more than enough. But that's not what they did they also added more stuff they now need to also clarify.
To the point part 3 now has to do a lottttttt of clarifying in a small window of time.

Is it bad writing though to do it this way? I really don't think we can say that for sure. Because we don't have the resolution yet. Maybe this is a genius 5D chess move the devs have been planning for years and we all are left happy as pt 3 gets critical acclaim.
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However I do have to say that in both CA and CT there are people who currently think Pt3 will somehow solve everything. And to those with that idea, I'm sorry to say no it won't. Because a lot of the issues with fandom was never a problem with the devs or writing or clarity but of fandom itself. And the types of bad takes and diminishing characters that have plagued the fandom have very little to do with the story or people being confused and everything to do with the biases we hold.

No matter how pt 3 turns out you're still going to run into those same people who will not listen and those who think shippers ruin everything.

But even so what I hope to get is a story conclusion that makes sense and feels worth the grief.

@Eerie @Skilganon
Edit: I hope now my point is clear on why I don't blame the devs or think they're trying to make anyone look bad BUT I'm also only cautiously optimistic at most of how they're going to end this story.

Also sorry my quotes aren't actually working to address each point separately without replying. So I just wrote big posts.

 

[Skilganon]

I completely agree that ZA needs to be convincing if that's where SE's going for part 3.

Because, however part 3 turns out, it will greatly affect things like merch sales and the careers of content creators.

Though I like the direction the devs are taking CT in the Remake series, it seems a little odd that in a remake we see the most overt expansion of Cloud and Tifa's relationship. Almost like Cloud is apologizing for Advent Children. That was one of my first thoughts when I played Remake and saw Cloud give Tifa the flower, (This is how you should treat her). I actually took it as evidence that Cloud had foreknowledge of the future, the way that Cloud treats Tifa so differently from the OG.

 

[Eerie]

However, I'm saying the pattern the devs have shown so far has shown me two things: Aerith in OG, in COLW in the compilation has never said anything other than she loves Cloud in the present.

That is not true. She has voiced it only once, and it was in CoLW. And that Aerith has died. You see why I stressed out to you why it was surprising and important that they had CoLW Aerith dying?

And up to this point they haven't shown Zack as much, had Aerith talking about how she wants to meet Cloud and that things are different now. So what what exactly are Aerith fans supposed to think? Are they supposed to not believe their own favorite character?

The fact that they haven't shown Zack as much is normal, since he's dead. But it doesn't mean his part isn't very important, setting up both the Lifestream worlds and how they work, as well as his reunion with Aerith. Through him, we have been seeing a question long asked by fans, which is: how the Lifestream works? And it's not a cut clear "oh we all join the Lifestream", sometimes it looks like we're stopped in between. Which was foreshadowed by Jessie's father too. And that will explain Cloud's own world as well.

But they have not actually shown us that part where Aerith says "Oh it really is that I love Zack" yet.

That is not true at all, she said it in Gongaga. This is why Cloud believes she still is in love with Zack in Tifa's GS date, because she has voiced it.

But the problem is up until this point they actually haven't had us see Zack as the person Aerith loves besides Crisis Core. Which is the past. They really need to show us this in the present. This means Zack needed WAY more screen time and development to convince the audience that this reunion is something we want for Aerith and that Aerith wants for herself. I would be totally fine with Zerith. I'm sure many CAs would too if it was actually fleshed out. The problem is it's not. And another main issue is Nojima in order to tie Aerith to Zack made her ribbon, selling flowers etc all about him while not actually selling us on why they're so great together. We basically don't see them on screen together that long. And the stuff we see looks mostly like a copy of CA.

I highly disagree. Remake shows pretty in depth how much Aerith still is in love with Zack. Hell, even Rebirth does: she has that vision with him while going up to Corel and after fighting the robot, she talks about him to Tifa, she follows someone she doesn't know just because he looks like an older Zack, she says she still loves him, and we see her feeling his hand through the Lifestream (which is, to be very honest, the kind of soulmates shit the Lifestream pulls...). And even in GS, we see that Tifa and Aerith do talk about him. I am very sorry, but play the MSQ only, forget about the sidequests, remember that one zone = 1 day roughly, and you will see that ZA is VERY blatant, CA? Not so much. Do it, play only the MSQ and you will see what I saw when I played, I was like wow, this game is very CT and ZA!

And what does she say about Cloud? That she wants to meet him. I'm sorry but that's not romantic. Aerith is acknowleding the truth that she does not know the real Cloud. When Zack talked to Biggs about Cloud, he was very surprised as the Cloud Biggs described was very different from the Cloud he knew: and that Cloud, Aerith does not know him. Yes, she wants to meet the real him, but can you say she really does love him when she hasn't met him up until now? There is a clear distinction in Aerith's mind, and it should matter to her fans as well. CoLW Aerith had focused on that, but she understood too late that maybe it wasn't the same kind of feelings she thought she had.

Then for the rest of the time Aerith is all about Cloud. So now in Rebirth was the best time to show us what is so good about Aerith and Zack. And what did they do? They doubled down on "Aerith loves Cloud" at least that's how it looks by having Marlene tell him that. And once again have Zack basically in the background with an unconscious Aerith this time. We don't see them interact.

I think it was one of Rebirth's biggest problem, it's that they did not develop Aerith's relationships outside of Cloud properly. The others were properly depicted between them (Tifa and Yuffie? Big sis/little sis vibe; Barret? He's the dad). The only exception would be Red, but even that is forgotten after a while. Her and Tifa's interactions may be hidden and seen as flashback in next game though, but I really did not enjoy their friendship as I did in Remake, they failed them IMHO. Yet Nojima says it: her song is about everyone who matters in her life, not only Cloud, so that is very reducing to say that Aerith is all about Cloud: even at the GS we can safely say that is not the case, since she writes her song there.

And again, I do not think they doubled down on "Aerith loves Cloud", the game has not shown me that. Basically CA exists within chapter 14, and even that is shaky at best. I watched Welonz's let's play and she knew about the love triangle so she looked for CA hints, and was surprised because the game kept telling her Cloud loved Tifa, but she did not see CA as anything but besties (she did all the sidequests), until the church scene. So that surprised her a great deal when Aerith tried to confess.

The devs haven't done nearly enough to dissuade people of this. It's believed by a large number of people who are shipping-neutral. And like @LunarTarotGirl said, if the dream date has the intention you claim, then it largely back fired. I've said previously that the whole dream date section should have simply been cut from the game. The events of Advent Children don't really help this case either.

Yeah but it's natural because we are deep in the illusion right now; and Cloud is not OK mentally either, he is more and more influenced by Jenova. Also if you skip Zack's part on replay, the date is skipped too. It's part of Zack's world.

My issue with the dream date is specifically it adds an element of Aerith not knowing what kind of like she feels for Cloud. This is something that goes against what she has said this entire 27 years including Lifestream White.

She's only said that in CoLW, and this event takes place after CoLW (she found a way to talk to Cloud), so yeah, I do think that a lot of CAs are in for a biiiiiiiiig surprise in part 3. I have said it but Cloud is the "it's only been you" type of character, which he admits in the LSS in the OG, so it will be there in p3 too. So that kills CA. Because it takes 2 to tango. But Zack himself is that kind of character too.

So what kind of character is Aerith? She's the kind of character who was not over Zack until very late in the game, if she ever was. In the GS date she says "I want to meet you" but she never has, and she dies 2 days after - do you feel that's enough to fall for a guy she still doesn't know? She does meet him in AC/C, I guess, but she is not interested romantically in him by then (contrarily to CoLW Aerith). I don't think that her feelings for Cloud are truly of romantic nature, especially since she admits seeing her first love in him (which... duh). They have a lot to do to redeem her character, IMHO, with the way she acted towards both Cloud and Tifa. She has to own it, at the very least - to me she used Cloud to feel as if she was with Zack, because she missed Zack that much; it's very much what Remake and Rebirth told me. Zack and Aerith's reunion is tainted by Marlene, which means they have to clear out her feelings for Cloud. And that's not something the fandom is prepared for.

As someone who fell in love at first sight with her husband, let me tell you: love, even at first sight, has to stand the test of time. ZA endures it, CT endures it, CA does not endure it, if only because Cloud is not in love with Aerith.

And I will say what I always say: if I am wrong and Cloud does indeed love Aerith at the same time as Tifa, then I'm out. Because I would not want Tifa to be with such a guy. That's especially unfair to her character, to be pushed as second best when she was supposed to be the main love interest, to diminish her role like this. So no, I would drop FFVII and SE like a sack of potatoes and they would never see my euros again. It's as simple as that. Because, that's not what I was sold in the OG.

Edit: typos

 

[Ryeleigh]

Zack and Aerith's reunion is tainted by Marlene, which means they have to clear out her feelings for Cloud.

I think they will clear both:

"She likes Cloud now (duh, you weren't there)!" Though I might be paraphrasing that.

"There is liking and liking."

One is an answer for Zack, the other is an answer for Aerith herself.

Also, I'm sorry that I'm too lazy to look this up in the thread, so I can't directly quote it - but just because CA looks romantic doesn't mean it is romantic. I mean, harems and love triangles do this all the time, so I just don't see why FFVII is treated as some kind of exception where it means something more than it is?

And if we go with that, then:

Jessie/Cloud should be romantic, since she arguably had feelings for him, and kissed him on the cheek.

Sephiroth/Cloud should be romantic, since he comes across as a stalker ex-boyfriend.

Roche/Cloud should be romantic, since Roche arguably has homoerotic feelings for him.

Even Yuffie/Cloud should be romantic, since she kisses him on the cheek (implying a crush).

To be honest, I don't see why Aerith is the exception just because she's more plausible than the others?

...If what I mean can be parsed from that?

 

[Reaper3Delta]

People take things out of context, there is an event with my High School class with a motto: "Let's make some new memories" does that mean any romantic confimation between us, HELL NO!!!. Besides anything related to Aer loving/liking Cloud is confirmed to be from her side not Cloud's. OTOH everything Cloud/Tifa is confirmed mutual. I will add "C"/A is Aer imposing Zack on Cloud.

 

[lyingbanana]

I've found CA works better in ambiguity, so I agree the best way forward is to develop CT and ZA. There will still be moments for CA, the hand reach or when Cloud says I think about Aerith a lot for example, in part 3 that im sure its fans will interpret as romantic, but if CT and ZA keep getting developed really what more is there to say.

The church scene really was for Aerith but did it really change anything for Cloud?

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

I've found CA works better in ambiguity, so I agree the best way forward is to develop CT and ZA. There will still be moments for CA, the hand reach or when Cloud says I think about Aerith a lot for example, in part 3 that im sure its fans will interpret as romantic, but if CT and ZA keep getting developed really what more is there to say.

The church scene really was for Aerith but did it really change anything for Cloud?

That's exactly what I'm saying. That i don't think from now on they'll actually go deeper into exploring CA instead they will lean into things with ZA and CT. CT being currently the most established.

ZA needing in my view a lot more than what we got but will still be developed. And they're setting everything up for that.

The church scene for Cloud was a farewell something he never got in OG. And a way to get the white materia. It's closure in that sense. Being told not to blame himself etc.

@Eerie I think you misunderstood me. I am not the one that needs convincing Aerith loves Zack. The ones that need convincing are people that don't believe she does. From a business standpoint if ZA is endgame then it's in the devs best interest to show the audience that Aerith is interested in Zack. And I did play mostly MSQ. I really don't think this comes across as clearly as you see it because Zack is very much in the background. And the emphasis for a majority of OG and in the compilation is not about her feelings for Zack but her attraction to Cloud.

And in Rebirth even after she says that she still likes Zack she goes on the gondola date and says things are different about Cloud and she wants to meet Cloud. And then Marlene tells Zack Aerith likes Cloud. Then in her dream date she talks about her feelings for Cloud.

What impression are those that need convincing that ZA is endgame going to get from this?

This matters. Because if what they're trying to do with the story is clarify Aerith's feelings for Zack then I can't help but think this would have been more convincing if we had flashbacks of CC, or Aerith shown thinking of Zack or maybe the actual scene of her talking about Zack. Maybe scenes of them thinking about eachother etc.

I understand it's set up. But too much is not shown for the sake of set up. I know Zack is important but the game itself doesn't actually treat him that way unfortunately. By keeping him in the background with one of his major scenes being about how he now thinks the woman he loves is now into someone else. I'm not saying I think Aerith doesn't love Zack. but it could have been done way better.


For the rest of the points I want people to think of a time they were convinced a couple on the screen was romantic only to find out later they were completely wrong. You were wrong because of the story yes but that didn't change the fact you still viewed it as romantic right? And I bet you didn't view it that way out of thin air or no reason. That's happened to me several times so I'm very aware the difference between appearance and what is. But I also think it just is par for the course that people believe what they see without always necessarily looking deeper.

@Ryeleigh Yes "looking romantic" doesn't necessarily mean 'is romantic".
I never said otherwise.

And no it's not an exception. I agree with all those examples.
But I just also also think eventually any illusion or misunderstanding Should be cleared up if the point is you don't want your audience to view something as romantic. Not let them keep thinking it is.
I think it's in creators best interests to do that.

 

[Skilganon]

There's a lot of deliberate misdirection from the devs in both Remake and Rebirth. Marlene's remark is just one piece in a whole mosaic. I'd wager they want the question of who Cloud loves to seem like a toss-up until the big reveal. Whether this was the best way to handle things remains to be seen.

 

[Eerie]

@LunarTarotGirl To me, ZA is set up the way CT was in the OG: mostly hidden, with hints of it. I personally didn't see much romantic CA in the whole game, and I think a lot of CA fans only played her sidequests while either not playing the other characters' or forgot that these were skippable.

And yeah the devs are about to blast their views because they are not looking at the bigger picture with clarity. It's very obvious that they put a kiss to show who the true romantic interest is, but they refused to acknowledge it. I think the devs did their job with Rebirth. Sure the ending is a mess, but the game is very clear about where the truth is. So I cannot agree to say that the devs are not going to clarify Aerith's feelings towards Cloud when her own character as well as Zack's demand it. It's part of the misconcptions the devs want to clear out.

As for the Compilation, about CA, the OG pushed that she was interested in him, yes, because it failed to convey properly that it was her first love she saw in him (although I do have a friend who saw her few lines of dialogue about it and went "this chick talks too much about her ex, she is not the real love interest" lol kudos to her with just the OG), CC is ZA, CoLW indeed does pushes Aerith > Cloud and ACC pushes ZA.

So I don't think the Compilation pushes Aerith > Cloud that much. To me it would be better to explain why it went from CoLW to ACC with a different writing of Aerith, which is what they started doing in Rebirth with CoLW Aerith dying, her meeting one last time Zack and the set up with Marlene's comment to Zack, Zack's comment to Cloud anf finally Zack ending up... in Aerith's church.

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

There's a lot of deliberate misdirection from the devs in both Remake and Rebirth. Marlene's remark is just one piece in a whole mosaic. I'd wager they want the question of who Cloud loves to seem like a toss-up until the big reveal. Whether this was the best way to handle things remains to be seen.

That is basically exactly what I'm saying.

And it's for story purposes that they're doing this. Hence if the pay off is good I won't judge them too harshly.

However I also think people should understand why so many people see CA in the story and not ZA. That's why. And I don't judge them either because as a CA I clearly see what they're seeing too. I just also figured out that what I'm seeing is for the sake of story misdirection.

It feels like looking through a veil almost. I see what's on the surface and what is on the other side at the same time. But I understand many aren't seeing what I see. And I don't blame them for that either.

Also about the fairness of this yeah I agree letting half your audience hold a specific view for 27 years and lead them on till the very last game can from the fan's side of things be considered unfair.

From the creators side of things though, it's just really common to use characters, character relationships etc as ways to misdirect stories set up reveals etc.

I haven't yet decided how I feel about that. Just that it's not intentionally malicious or always a bad thing.

Basically I think we should let the devs cook first. Then judge.

But as I made it very clear I definitely don't think the story and writing is without flaws. I just also don't think the flaws are enough to justify the common bad takes we see.

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@Eerie I am very obviously frustrated with this method of doing things lol. But willing to wait patiently and see how things turn out. And it will definitely be interesting to come back to this post and see how my view evolves.

But I will say I can see where people are seeing romantic CA in the MSQ. I just also see the ZA set up in the background. And I see all this as being done in a way to keep the reveals hidden and as Skilagon says"feel like a toss up" until pt 3 gets here.
Whether it's a good idea to do it this way or not as Skilagon says waits to be seen.

 

[Reaper3Delta]

I've found CA works better in ambiguity, so I agree the best way forward is to develop CT and ZA. There will still be moments for CA, the hand reach or when Cloud says I think about Aerith a lot for example, in part 3 that im sure its fans will interpret as romantic, but if CT and ZA keep getting developed really what more is there to say.

The church scene really was for Aerith but did it really change anything for Cloud?

Funny, you know who is always thinking about Aer and mentioning her more than anyone in the party...RedXIII. Does that make him have any romantic link with Aer nope, c'mon now. The hand thing she is guiding Cloud back to Tifa back to reality, nothing romantic. What was never developed in life will not be developed in death, (alive person hooking up with a dead one) and Remake trilogy had many opportunities to change that , but never did. Just accept and move on.

 

[lyingbanana]

Funny, you know who is always thinking about Aer and mentioning her more than anyone in the party...RedXIII. Does that make him have any romantic link with Aer nope, c'mon now. The hand thing she is guiding Cloud back to Tifa back to reality, nothing romantic. What was never developed in life will not be developed in death, (alive person hooking up with a dead one) and Remake trilogy had many opportunities to change that , but never did. Just accept and move on.

Im saying this things happened in the OG and that people that like that pairing (CA) will see it as romantic, not that I agree with them.

Edit: tbh I have been going into clerith videos that explain their relationship bc I wanted to understand what makes them believe it and honestly a lot of the explanaitions I see are just plain wrong. Misunderstanding of the characters, from (sometimes) a dash of truth.

An example: when Cloud plainly declines to sit next to Aerith in the gondola is seen as him being "shy", so they take it as that Aerith is the initiator, the forward one, and Cloud the shy one. When truly if you compare it to the gondola scene with Tifa, Cloud has no problem initiating. So to them Cloud with Tifa is out of character bc realCloud is shy not "the initiator when it comes to romance" and why they say he is Soldier Cloud when with Tifa, and his true self with Aerith.

Its totally backwards.

 

[Nancy]

An example: when Cloud plainly declines to sit next to Aerith in the gondola is seen as him being "shy", so they take it as that Aerith is the initiator, the forward one, and Cloud the shy one. When truly if you compare it to the gondola scene with Tifa, Cloud has no problem initiating. So to them Cloud with Tifa is out of character bc realCloud is shy not "the initiator when it comes to romance" and why they say he is Soldier Cloud when with Tifa, and his true self with Aerith.

Its totally backwards.

Those kind of people, don't even waste your time with them, lol because they will only believe what they say/come up with

 

[Skilganon]

An example: when Cloud plainly declines to sit next to Aerith in the gondola is seen as him being "shy", so they take it as that Aerith is the initiator, the forward one, and Cloud the shy one. When truly if you compare it to the gondola scene with Tifa, Cloud has no problem initiating. So to them Cloud with Tifa is out of character bc realCloud is shy not "the initiator when it comes to romance" and why they say he is Soldier Cloud when with Tifa, and his true self with Aerith.

To play devil's advocate here, I don't think the devs are trying to take a romantic interpretation off the table. Cloud is simultaneously shy/not interested. Cloud has been known to act not interested when he really is.

If you took out all of the romantic CT scenes from the game, CA would seem like the principle romance (Though an awkward one).

 

[Eerie]

Yeah but the problem is that you do have CT as the ruler, the one pair where you do see him wanting and reaching out to Tifa, where he is proactive.

CA, as Nojima said, has all the emotional burden placed on Aerith, and I don’t think that’s fair to her character. She too deserves a love interest who wants to reach her, and we do see him trying to do just that the whole game tbh: Zack.

 

[lyingbanana]

Thats the thing seen in a vacuum CA I see what they see. Cloud is still not the initiator but goes along with Aerith and lets her lead. I can understand why they read romance in their interactions.

But in reality we do have other characters who interact with Cloud which invites us to compare and draw conclusions, especially with Tifa and you can tell its different.

Which should make people evaluate what they see but instead I see people double down or push the player choice or its up to interpretation angle.

 

[Skilganon]

It's kind of strange that one of the biggest changes in the Retrilogy to the OG is the increased intimacy in the CT relationship, yet a large portion of the fandom still thinks that changing Fate = Aerith Living and getting with Cloud. It seems to me that Fate has already changed to make C and T almost kiss in Cissnei's bedroom and then kiss in the skywheel. It's also weird that there are a seemingly equal number of purists who think any changes to the story = Aerith living and being with Cloud, and they want to avoid this. Even if Aerith lived, there would be no world in which a self-actualized Cloud would reject Tifa.

To what extent to people think the possibility of Aerith living has been deliberately teased by the devs? I wouldn't say it's 0%.

 

[null]

The possibility of her living? 0%. The possibility of the devs teasing her living? 100%

Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth director Naoki Hamaguchi has said he deliberately intended for the game's ending - the fate of Aerith - to cause debate and keep players guessing until the trilogy's forthcoming conclusion.

Which is pointless because his bosses already spoiled it. Plus Rebirth gave her a farewell tour that would have made Kobe Bryant blush. She's dead, for sure.

 

[Eerie]

Even Hamaguchi himself said she was dead after Rebirth in an interview. He said the party would have to live while carrying on her wish to save the planet or something like that IIRC.

 

[Heartstation]

Maybe the devs have avoided giving a unitedly & explicit status of Aerith when specifically asked, but that’s simply for the fact they want people to keep theorizing & talking about the games. With even just that tiny bit of uncertainty, they are hoping speculation for what this all means continues to swarm the fandom during the wait for P3, it’s just something they feel is necessary for a project split into 3 parts with years-long gaps between releases.

At the same time, there is also verbal assurance by devs in interviews & ultimanias that despite the new mysteries embedded in the familiar plot, they aren’t trying to create a sequel or veer off the path of the original. And they don’t really avoid talking about Aerith as though she is dead either. I personally think they believe that the fans who are tuning in to their interviews and behind the scenes are already of the mind—especially with consideration that these are likely the same people who begged for a remake for so many years—that this trilogy is not trying to fundamentally reshape the foundation of this story, change its events, or tear down its own themes.
I think it was Hamaguchi who described his approach as being inspired by how the Beauty & The Beast live action was retold, where the classic tale preserved its core story and essential beats remained the same, while there were several notable expansions to both characters and the plot. Whether you agree that the live action was a good adaptation or not, you can’t deny that the parts of the story that mattered to the original were retained.

I don’t necessarily agree with everything that Square has done in pursuit of their goals for the retrilogy, but it is clear from the collective commentary shared by the devs regarding the creative process that they hold the original story in extremely high regard, & understand that this remake project has been something old & new fans are ready to cherish.
Their intention isn’t to shit on any one character or dynamic, but to tie all of it up with a bow as a gift to old fans as well as to create a fresh way to experience the beloved story for everyone, including newcomers.

Nomura has currently been given the reins to construct an ending worthy of its iconic status, with the assurance that whatever he cooks up will respect the OG. Personally, I believe this ending will be what this change of fate has all been building toward, rather than a followthrough to the popular expectation of Aerith’s death being subverted through a dream world or multiverse.
Anyone who truly understands this game knows that in order to honor the original, Aerith has to die, and stay dead. As much as I enjoy her character, I don’t see any way for them to even consider changing this—even Hamaguchi who admittedly in his youth wanted to try to save her when he replayed, understands the profound legacy of her death, & how it was an essential emotional drive for the rest of the story, tying into the game’s overarching messages.

There’s just no way around it, and none of what the creators have said currently or in the past conveys an inclination to avoid her passing.