Hojo and lies

[jazzflower92]

I think it's more fun to make up our own Reno backstories.

Re Hojo - I get the impression the beach bunnies really do like him. He impresses them with his mighty... brain, and his willingness to wear a lab coat on the beach. All the nice girls love a scientist.

Us women can be attracted to the most strangest men.

 

[Octo]

I think all Hojo had to do was flash some cash, he's probably very well paid, and he's obviously not interested in spending money on himself.

He probably didn't even consciously do anything, I imagine Costa is full of gold diggers just waiting for rich guys to show up

 

[Tashasaurous]

I think it's more fun to make up our own Reno backstories.

I've read so many different fanfic versions of Reno's backstories and made a few of my own, but eventually it gets tiring in trying to imagine what Reno's life really was before he became a Turk.

Tseng has a bit of a clearer picture since he looks Wutaiian and even his english voice actor doesn't have an english background.

Elena's fairly easy because her back-story was much revealed in Before Crisis, especially when she's the younger sister of Gun(the female playable Turk).

Rude kind of strikes me he's from Costa del Sol, and can easily keep Reno in line since the two are partners and best friends.

Re Hojo - I get the impression the beach bunnies really do like him. He impresses them with his mighty... brain, and his willingness to wear a lab coat on the beach. All the nice girls love a scientist.

Us women can be attracted to the most strangest men.

Especially when we're desperate to find our "Mr. Right".

I think all Hojo had to do was flash some cash, he's probably very well paid, and he's obviously not interested in spending money on himself.

He probably didn't even consciously do anything, I imagine Costa is full of gold diggers just waiting for rich guys to show up

I don't think he's interesting in anything other but his lousy science experiments.

I just find Costa a hoilday restort which seems fun and relaxing to explore.

 

[leadmyskeptic]

Costa del Sol is definitey a luxury town, thus the President's villa, the lady on the plane wing who mocks you for not having the bucks to lay around and look at the sky all day instead of working...so I always took those ladies on the beach to be money/fame whores.

As far as Hojo's foundation--there's very strong references that a lot of his behavior by the time of the game has to do with his inferiority complex to Gast and his desire to surpass him now that he's gone, but it's never really expounded upon. Something tells me though that, like a lot of things with FF7, if some kind of side-story actually fleshed out and TOLD us more than the OG did instead of leaving it up to our heads, it would disappoint and frustrate us.

 

[Tashasaurous]

Costa del Sol is definitey a luxury town, thus the President's villa, the lady on the plane wing who mocks you for not having the bucks to lay around and look at the sky all day instead of working...so I always took those ladies on the beach to be money/fame whores.

As far as Hojo's foundation--there's very strong references that a lot of his behavior by the time of the game has to do with his inferiority complex to Gast and his desire to surpass him now that he's gone, but it's never really expounded upon. Something tells me though that, like a lot of things with FF7, if some kind of side-story actually fleshed out and TOLD us more than the OG did instead of leaving it up to our heads, it would disappoint and frustrate us.

The main reason why Hojo was head in the first place is because one, Gast left to marry Aerith's mother, and two, the bastard killed him in cold blood.

 

[jazzflower92]

It makes me wonder who hasn't Hojo lied to the in the past.

 

[Clement Rage]

Hojo is the like the third most powerful man in the world, and the experiments people know about are SOLDIER. Maybe they want him to give them superpowers.

Do we know he's ugly? They're all polygons.

It makes me wonder who hasn't Hojo lied to the in the past.]

Well, nobody's come up with an example of him lying at all yet, so...

As far as Hojo's foundation--there's very strong references that a lot of his behavior by the time of the game has to do with his inferiority complex to Gast and his desire to surpass him now that he's gone

That's Sephiroth's opinion, but he loved Gast and hated Hojo, so I'm not sure how far to trust that.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

It was Vincent's assessment of him as well, though. Granted, he didn't have any more love for him than Seph did, but between the game giving us two people who knew Hojo across several decades (and not at the same time), I'd say there's no reason to question it.



As for "makes me wonder who Hojo hasn't lied to in the past" ... yeah, I don't know where that's coming from. He arguably lied to Sephiroth about his mother, but it's just as likely he didn't see Lucrecia as anything but lab equipment and actually regarded Jenova as more Seph's mother. Genetically speaking, it's not really false.

Maybe Nero? At the very least, he did mislead him.

 

[Tashasaurous]

Hojo is the like the third most powerful man in the world, and the experiments people know about are SOLDIER. Maybe they want him to give them superpowers.

Do we know he's ugly? They're all polygons.

It makes me wonder who hasn't Hojo lied to the in the past.]

Well, nobody's come up with an example of him lying at all yet, so...

As far as Hojo's foundation--there's very strong references that a lot of his behavior by the time of the game has to do with his inferiority complex to Gast and his desire to surpass him now that he's gone

That's Sephiroth's opinion, but he loved Gast and hated Hojo, so I'm not sure how far to trust that.

Well, I know that Hojo is butt-ugly, and I'm dreading on what the dead President, Scarlet and Heidegger will look like in the Remake.

And despite that Sephiroth went insane, he had good taste between the two scientests, because I actually like Gast. Personally, I think Sephiroth saw him more of a father to him since he liked the guy so much. Hojo would've been great as Sephiroth's punching bag if he wasn't higher in superior-thing than the silver-haired SOLDIER.

It was Vincent's assessment of him as well, though. Granted, he didn't have any more love for him than Seph did, but between the game giving us two people who knew Hojo across several decades (and not at the same time), I'd say there's no reason to question it.


As for "makes me wonder who Hojo hasn't lied to in the past" ... yeah, I don't know where that's coming from. He arguably lied to Sephiroth about his mother, but it's just as likely he didn't see Lucrecia as anything but lab equipment and actually regarded Jenova as more Seph's mother. Genetically speaking, it's not really false.

Maybe Nero? At the very least, he did mislead him.

Vincent never got the chance to meet Sephiroth until 30 somewhat years later. He heard of the name for a mysterious reason, but that's pretty much it.

And in regards to how Hojo saw Lucrecia as lab equipment, he sees everyone who just enters his lab and even in the entire planet nothing more than subjects. In the end, he must've seen too many science movies or read too many science books in his childhood that drove him insane that made him sastified. I wouldn't even be surprised if he even experimented his own parents.

Nero never knew that he was being used by Hojo up until the latter was reawoken in Weiss's body.

 

[jazzflower92]

Hojo is the like the third most powerful man in the world, and the experiments people know about are SOLDIER. Maybe they want him to give them superpowers.

Do we know he's ugly? They're all polygons.

It makes me wonder who hasn't Hojo lied to the in the past.]

Well, nobody's come up with an example of him lying at all yet, so...

That's Sephiroth's opinion, but he loved Gast and hated Hojo, so I'm not sure how far to trust that.

Well, I know that Hojo is butt-ugly, and I'm dreading on what the dead President, Scarlet and Heidegger will look like in the Remake.

And despite that Sephiroth went insane, he had good taste between the two scientests, because I actually like Gast. Personally, I think Sephiroth saw him more of a father to him since he liked the guy so much. Hojo would've been great as Sephiroth's punching bag if he wasn't higher in superior-thing than the silver-haired SOLDIER.

It was Vincent's assessment of him as well, though. Granted, he didn't have any more love for him than Seph did, but between the game giving us two people who knew Hojo across several decades (and not at the same time), I'd say there's no reason to question it.


As for "makes me wonder who Hojo hasn't lied to in the past" ... yeah, I don't know where that's coming from. He arguably lied to Sephiroth about his mother, but it's just as likely he didn't see Lucrecia as anything but lab equipment and actually regarded Jenova as more Seph's mother. Genetically speaking, it's not really false.

Maybe Nero? At the very least, he did mislead him.

Vincent never got the chance to meet Sephiroth until 30 somewhat years later. He heard of the name for a mysterious reason, but that's pretty much it.

And in regards to how Hojo saw Lucrecia as lab equipment, he sees everyone who just enters his lab and even in the entire planet nothing more than subjects. In the end, he must've seen too many science movies or read too many science books in his childhood that drove him insane that made him sastified. I wouldn't even be surprised if he even experimented his own parents.

Nero never knew that he was being used by Hojo up until the latter was reawoken in Weiss's body.

I don't think anyone in game actually likes the guy, and just tolerate him until he does something really nasty to them.

 

[Tashasaurous]

I don't think anyone in game actually likes the guy, and just tolerate him until he does something really nasty to them.

Do you blame them? Because I certainly don't.

 

[Sprites]

Default
Hojo is the like the third most powerful man in the world, and the experiments people know about are SOLDIER. Maybe they want him to give them superpowers.

Do we know he's ugly? They're all polygons

A lot of his artwork shows he's not exactly the best looking man, intelligent looking yes, but not good looking.

Vincent never got the chance to meet Sephiroth until 30 somewhat years later. He heard of the name for a mysterious reason, but that's pretty much it.

But he did know who Sephiroth was despite never having met him until years later, I use the term met loosely though and there's no mystery about it. He knew that Lucrecia gave birth to Sephiroth, he's the one that tells the party about it and it's revealed in cutscenes that he knew full well what Hojo wanted to do with his unborn child he even confronted Hojo and was shot and experimented on himself because of it.

I don't see what your point has to do with Tres' about getting a similar assessment of Hojo from two separate characters over a period of time, It really doesn't matter if they met or not, the fact that the assessments about him are similar is telling to what kind of person Hojo is.

I don't think anyone in game actually likes the guy, and just tolerate him until he does something really nasty to them

Maybe not but I'd say there's a level of respect there for him and what he does even its not very moral

In terms of Hojo outright lying about things, I wouldn't say he does that either but I'd say there's an element of him manipulating the truth in a way that suits him.

On another topic of that point I don't think Sephiroth ever outright asked Hojo if he was his father. The Nibelheim scene to me seems to imply he DOES know who is father is, the whole "My father..." then the trailing of with a laugh and "What does it matter?" Hojo seems to think Sephiroth doesn't know he's his father, at least the scene at the Mako Cannon seems to say that.

I doubt he would have lied about he seemed at the cannon to think it would be one of those "the look on your face moments" considering he says Sephiroth always looked down on him, I think he'd have taken great pleasure in that if Sephiroth had asked him, considering that Sephiroth seemed to have a great level of respect for Gast and what we can certainly assume was much less for Hojo, for Sephiroth to be told that is something that Hojo would have probably been very happy to make a point of "the man you look down on is the very man that made you what your are" kind of speech.

 

[jazzflower92]

Default
Hojo is the like the third most powerful man in the world, and the experiments people know about are SOLDIER. Maybe they want him to give them superpowers.

Do we know he's ugly? They're all polygons

A lot of his artwork shows he's not exactly the best looking man, intelligent looking yes, but not good looking.

Vincent never got the chance to meet Sephiroth until 30 somewhat years later. He heard of the name for a mysterious reason, but that's pretty much it.

But he did know who Sephiroth was despite never having met him until years later, I use the term met loosely though and there's no mystery about it. He knew that Lucrecia gave birth to Sephiroth, he's the one that tells the party about it and it's revealed in cutscenes that he knew full well what Hojo wanted to do with his unborn child he even confronted Hojo and was shot and experimented on himself because of it.

I don't see what your point has to do with Tres' about getting a similar assessment of Hojo from two separate characters over a period of time, It really doesn't matter if they met or not, the fact that the assessments about him are similar is telling to what kind of person Hojo is.

I don't think anyone in game actually likes the guy, and just tolerate him until he does something really nasty to them

Maybe not but I'd say there's a level of respect there for him and what he does even its not very moral

In terms of Hojo outright lying about things, I wouldn't say he does that either but I'd say there's an element of him manipulating the truth in a way that suits him.

On another topic of that point I don't think Sephiroth ever outright asked Hojo if he was his father. The Nibelheim scene to me seems to imply he DOES know who is father is, the whole "My father..." then the trailing of with a laugh and "What does it matter?" Hojo seems to think Sephiroth doesn't know he's his father, at least the scene at the Mako Cannon seems to say that.

I doubt he would have lied about he seemed at the cannon to think it would be one of those "the look on your face moments" considering he says Sephiroth always looked down on him, I think he'd have taken great pleasure in that if Sephiroth had asked him, considering that Sephiroth seemed to have a great level of respect for Gast and what we can certainly assume was much less for Hojo, for Sephiroth to be told that is something that Hojo would have probably been very happy to make a point of "the man you look down on is the very man that made you what your are" kind of speech.

He certainly withdrew that information from Sephiroth about him being his father, which is in a way very deceitful.

 

[Roger]

Why wouldn't have Vincent have met Sephiroth? No matter the timeline you give for Lucretia disappearing, Sephiroth being taken from Nibelheim and Vincent getting shot afterwards, he was definitely born in Nibelheim with Vincent present. He knows Sephiroth is Lucretia's son because he was there when Lucretia's newborn son was named Sephiroth.

 

[Sprites]

Was Vincent actually present at his birth though? He might have known his name but there's nothing to suggest he ever actually saw a baby Sephiroth.

@Jazzflower: True in what your saying, but again it's only my opinion that Sephiroth has some sort of inkling of who his father was, he could have been told his father was a complete waste of space and that he also died when he was young same as his mother. If that's the case Sephiroth would never have has reason to ask and Hojo no reason to tell him.

Is it an actual lie if you don't bring it up though?. I can't see Sephiroth marching up to him and going "Hey are you my dad?" and him going "No of course not"and I'm pretty sure they never had such a personal relationship that Sephiroth would ever have approached him with a question like that. I'd be interested to hear what other people think though.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

About Sephiroth and Hojo - I think the game leaves it up in the air as to whether pre-insane Sephiroth had any idea who his father was. What the game stresses is that he didn't think his father was important (for whatever reason), but he did lay some importance on his mother. The question is, who told him his mother was called Jenova? Was it Gast, or Hojo?

Eeven if Sephiroth suspected Hojo might be his father, I doubt he would have wanted it confirmed, and not just because he would have felt ashamed of the connection. Hojo is incapable of giving the kind of love and approval every boy wants from his father, and I think Sephiroth would have known this. Having the blood relationship openly acknowledged would have also opened up for acknowledging that his own father did not love him unconditionally. Plus, it would have given Hojo an additional hold on him. Better not to know, I reckon.

I don't think Hojo knows how to tell lies. He doesn't bother to hide his scathing contempt for just about everyone. Why would he go to the trouble of lying to them?

 

[Sprites]

Definitely, I was thinking that myself, would Sephiroth really want to know the truth anyways?

 

[jazzflower92]

Definitely, I was thinking that myself, would Sephiroth really want to know the truth anyways?

It would give him even more reason to hate Hojo. Heck, I think he wouldn't even try to call him father, because he would have been the opposite of that.

 

[Tashasaurous]

Definitely, I was thinking that myself, would Sephiroth really want to know the truth anyways?

It would give him even more reason to hate Hojo. Heck, I think he wouldn't even try to call him father, because he would have been the opposite of that.

If Sephiroth had learned the real truth instead of coming with a false conclusion that made him go insane like burning down Nibelhiem and take his hatred against the entire planet, the only person he should've seeked revenge on was Hojo and Hojo alone, which also would give him one more reason to hate the guy and I'd be cheering him on.

 

[Octo]

the only person he should've seeked revenge on was Hojo and Hojo alone

Nah, what about Lucrecia, Gast and President Shinra? It's not like Hojo did this on the sly, hell it was Gast's project to begin with.

 

[Tashasaurous]

the only person he should've seeked revenge on was Hojo and Hojo alone

Nah, what about Lucrecia, Gast and President Shinra? It's not like Hojo did this on the sly, hell it was Gast's project to begin with.

Hojo wouldn't allow Lucrecia to even hold Sephiroth when he was just a newborn infant, so in guilt she sealed herself inside a crystal.

Sephiroth respected Gast who moved on to have a family of his own but was killed by Hojo who kidnapped Infara or whatever her name was and 20 day old Aerith to do horrible experiments since he never saw them as human like Gast did, only as animals for him to play with.

The President? Well, he would've probably been the last thing on Sephiroth's mind and if he learned about Deepgorund, then he'd kill him maybe.

 

[Sprites]

Agh Octo you beat me to it, I was going to say the same.

Lucrecia agreed to allow this to happen to her unborn child, Gast the man Sephiroth admired so much was the very person in charge of the project. Don't you think he'd be after all of Shinra if he found out the truth before that, and in the end he still did it when he went nuts.

I sometimes feel Lucrecia is painted in too sympathetic a light, Do I feel sorry for her because she obviously regretted what happened to her child and wished she could have changed what happened? Yes. But at the end of it all she agreed to allow her child to be experimented on and she shares her part in blame for that.

@ Tashasaurous: It's IFALNA...really not hard to remember or check for.

 

[Tashasaurous]

Agh Octo you beat me to it, I was going to say the same.

Lucrecia agreed to allow this to happen to her unborn child, Gast the man Sephiroth admired so much was the very person in charge of the project. Don't you think he'd be after all of Shinra if he found out the truth before that, and in the end he still did it when he went nuts.

I'm just thinking of a different scenario of what would've happened if Sephiroth was told that Jenova wasn't even his real mother. He was implanted by her cells, but those said cells were implanted inside Lucrecia. I refuse to have Jenova as Sephiroth's real mother.

Besides, Gast left to research more on the Ancients and fell in love with the last one, leaving everything else behind as he realiesed his wrong doings.

I sometimes feel Lucrecia is painted in too sympathetic a light, Do I feel sorry for her because she obviously regretted what happened to her child and wished she could have changed what happened? Yes. But at the end of it all she agreed to allow her child to be experimented on and she shares her part in blame for that.

@ Tashasaurous: It's IFALNA...really not hard to remember or check for.

Because Lucrecia wanted to hide the fact that Vincent's father Grimoire sacrificed himself and she had to distant herself away from the man she loved, and blindly went to Hojo until it was too late.

Yeah...sorry for the spelling mistake on Ifalna. I remember the name, but just have trouble spelling it out. I have trouble remembering how to spell certain words no matter how hard I try and looking it up in a dictionary or online are practially useless because it gives you the opposite of what you want.

 

[Sprites]

I'm just thinking of a different scenario of what would've happened if Sephiroth was told that Jenova wasn't even his real mother. He was implanted by her cells, but those said cells were implanted inside Lucrecia. I refuse to have Jenova as Sephiroth's real mother.

uhhh Jenova isn't his real mother so why say you refuse to have her, nobody here thinks she's his mother at all and I've played the game I know how he got Jenova cells in his body and you're coming off as quite patronising for making it sound like I don't know how it happened.

Yeah...sorry for the spelling mistake on Ifalna. I remember the name, but just have trouble spelling it out. I have trouble remembering how to spell certain words no matter how hard I try and looking it up in a dictionary or online are practially useless because it gives you the opposite of what you want.

there's always google and what is Aerith's mother called

Because Lucrecia wanted to hide the fact that Vincent's father Grimoire sacrificed himself and she had to distant herself away from the man she loved, and blindly went to Hojo until it was too late.

That was to do with her relationship with Vincent that has no bearing on her agreeing to her child being an experiment in the JENOVA project.

Your answer to my quote makes no sense at all to what I've written. I don't even understand how that pertains to her agreeing to give her child to the experiment, she wasn't forced into it, she agreed end of. Did she feel guilt and regret it, yes but it doesn't change that she in part shares the blame for JENOVA being implanted in Sephiroth in the first place.

 

[Octo]

The thing is, Sephiroth doesn't *know* that Gast and Lucrecia felt bad about the project. And it probably wouldn't matter even if they expressed remorse because he'd already gone batshit by then anyway.